Searching for John Docherty Birth!

[Annette7]

If Mary's birth certificate confirms that her parents were indeed John Docherty and Elizabeth Parker, then previous details from 1891 and 1911 are Census are correct with Maryhill being John's birthplace.

However, he was actually 2 years older than expected!

Decided to look at the birth entry for the Edward bc.1888 Burston, Stirlingshire and took a while but eventually found it confirming parents as John and wife Eliza/beth Marshall with her showing as having had a previous marriage to what I thought at first was Greer but now know was Gruer/Grewar.

Edwards' birth entry is under Dougherty, born 14/1/1888 at Birdston , Campsie, Stirling.

Then found John and Elizabeth on 1881 census when they were in Maryhill, Glasgow with 2 children from her first marriage as Gruar and 4 children from their own, the youngest being 5 month old John Docherty born Maryhill.   Back to births index on SP and John's birth also recorded as Dougherty and he was born 8/11/1880 to John and Elizabeth (nee Marshall).

The 1873 marriage is definitely correct for the couple although she married in her maiden name.   Familysearch shows the birth entry for son David from 1st marriage as 26/8/1868 as 'Grewar', son of Daniel Grewar and Elizabeth Marshall.   1881 census also states she was born in Ireland and wanted to find her and her 2 children in 1871 to see again if it states Ireland but alas couldn't find them.  (A Daniel Gruer aged 31 died in New Monkland, Lanarkshire in 1872 which could be him I suppose).   Again, familysearch shows Daniel Grewar and Elizabeth Marshall married 17/10/1862 Kirkintilloch.

Let's hope Mary's birth certificate will confirm the above details are all correct.

Annette

[Rosinish]

I thought at first was Greer but now know was Gruer/Grewar.

Annette

Annette, you did well with the 'variants' of that surname!

It's great when you acquire knowledge of such variants but only when you don't have to spend lots of £'s to find them 

Annie

[MonicaL]

Great info, Annette. Well done for finding the birth etc 

On a/try, the 1871 census has the family transcribed as Petersen with a correction to Grewar:

Daniel Peterson 29 blacksmith b.Slamannan, Stirlingshire
Elizabeth Peterson 27 b. Slamannan, Stirlingshire (looks like she has gone down same as husband)
Robert Peterson 31 should be 7 as born in August 1863
Margaret Peterson 5
David Peterson 2
Daniel Peterson 3 Months

Address: 112 High St, New Monkland/Airdrie

Monica

[MonicaL]

From the names of the children from Elizabeth's first marriage to Daniel Grewar, we have in order:

Robert
Margaret
David
Daniel

Wondering if they followed Scottish  naming pattern, Elizabeth's parents may have been called David and Margaret?

Ali, the 1873 marriage that Scotsmum mentioned earlier will confirm her parents' names for you. If they are David and Margaret...there is this possible 1861 census entry for her with family maybe just before the marriage to Daniel Grewar:

David Marshall 37 coal miner b. b. Antrim, Ireland
Margaret T Marshall 38 b. b. Antrim, Ireland
Elizabeth Marshall 18 cotton mill worker b. Antrim, Ireland
James Marshall 15 b. Antrim, Ireland
John Marshall 12 b. Campsie, Stirlingshire
David Marshall 10 b. Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Samuel Marshall 5 b. Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Margaret Marshall 2 b. Kilmarnock, Ayrshire

Address: Garden Sq Hamlet W Side, New Monkland Landward

If the correct family and her parents died in Scotland, you should be able to get the next generation back from their death registrations.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I think the T in mother Margaret's name above from 1861 was for her maiden  name of Thomson. There is an 1855 birth for them in Scotland for a Thomas (may have died pre 1861) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQBS-3JM

1855 BMDs in Scotland are very fortunate when you get them. The first year of Scottish official registration, the certs ran over two pages of the register before being reduced down to one side by 1856.

Lots of detail on birth certs from 1855 on parents. You should be able to confirm their marriage date and place, their ages and where they were from. Also how many children they had (boys/girls, alive/deceased).

Hope these are her parents 

Monica

[MonicaL]

There are numerous online trees on a/try which can be viewed with a subscription, such as here http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/45781727/person/230050712713/facts

The famlily were already in Scotland by 1851:

David Marshall 28 Agr Servant b. Ireland
Margt Marshall 28 b. Ireland
Eliza Marshall 7 b. Ireland
James Marshall 6 b. Campsie, Stirlingshire
John Marshall 2 b. Campsie, Stirlingshire
David Marshall 6 Months b. Campsie, Stirlingshire
Willm Thomson 21  Brother-in-law b. Ireland

Address: Blue Row, Milton, Campsie Stirlingshire

There are details on this family tree of Elizabeth Marshall/Greir/Docherty's death in December 1919 from heart failure.  Also included is the original marriage cert for Elizabeth to Daniel Greir in 1862 confirming her parents as David Marshall and Margaret Thomson.

Interestingly, from the many well documented trees, none of them seem to have been able to trace what happened to John born 1880 in Maryhill. Quite a lot of details, including death dates, have been included for his siblings but nothing for him...

Monica

[MonicaL]

All of the above are good guesses, but as you mentioned earlier, you are going to need to get the details from that 1923 birth for Mary Parker Docherty in Carnock, Fife.

There is a couple who could also connect to Mary. There is a John Docherty and a Mary Parker. The family in 1901 - everyone showng as born in Glasgow:

John Docherty 37 Dock Labourer
Mary Docherty 35
James Docherty 12
Mary Docherty 7
William Docherty 3
Hanna Docherty 6 Months

Address 4 W College St, Glasgow/Blythswood

It could be that one of these children called a daughter Mary Parker Docherty in 1923. They are all in the right age range.

Enough guesses from me now  Too many for me to feel comfortable that we are on the right family for now!

Monica

[MonicaL]

Said I would stop guessing. Well, a half guess!

We have the key birth that you are working from:

 1923 birth for Mary Parker Docherty in Carnock, Fife.

There is another birth in Carnock Fife in 1915. For a John Parker Docherty. His parents are showing below, the couple you were already looking at:

[MonicaL]

And so we are back (hurray...we have so much on them!) to John Docherty and Elizabeth Marshall who look to be grandparents to Mary Parker Docherty (still good to get her 1923 BC  ).

From the marriage details which you have of John Docherty to Elizabeth Parker in Cowdenbeath in 1911, as below. With additonal details going back on family lines from everyone and confirmation of his birth from Annette, looking good and firming up what you had already