Author Topic: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division  (Read 775 times)

Offline Purdie1972

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« on: Thursday 09 February 17 13:30 GMT (UK) »
I am researching my great-grandfather Alfred Bunt. I have a copy of his Army Service Records but I'm having trouble deciphering them. I know that he enlisted in the Army Service Corps in 1900 when he did three years in the Colours and then nine years in the Reserve. He then re-engaged in the Reserves in 1912 for a period of four years which was then, of course, superseded by events. His Army No. was T16620 - Horse Transport where he was a groom and driver and he was mobilised in Dublin on 24th August 1914. From a brief record of a court-martial for drunkenness and attempting to strike a superior officer, it would appear that he was attached to the 1st Indian Cavalry Division, later the 4th Cavalry Division (this would tie in with a photograph that we have of him with an Indian soldier).

What I would like to know is, is there anyway of finding out where exactly he would have been stationed during the First World War and would he have seen any fighting? I know he was on the Western Front and I understand that the Indian Cavalry Division were used more as unmounted infantry in the trenches than cavalry, but I can't seem to find out exactly where. I have the names of the G.O.C.s on the record at the time of his court martial on 20/06/1916 - A. E. Lundon, and E. C. Hodgson and Major General A A Kennedy. Also, would his court martial have been written up in the war diary and so, would it be worth my while getting hold of a copy it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks.
Researching:
Gallon/McKenzie/Donnison - Northumb.
Saxton/Brailsford/Bircumshaw/Fox/Ellis - Notts.
Bunt/Retallack/Rouse/Rowse/Solomon - Cornwall
Anderson/Jamieson/McArthur/Thomson - Edinburgh
Lewis - Berks./Oxon.
Williams/Walker - Glos.
Huckin - Oxon

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 February 17 15:29 GMT (UK) »
It would certainly be worth downloading, for the modest sum of £3. 45, the diary of 426 Company which covers the period of the court martial.http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351669
 If the incident isn't mentioned then at least it will give you a flavour of what the unit was engaged in for part of the war.
His record is singularly unhelpful as to which specific units he served in throughout the war and it has to be borne in mind that the ASC were supporting troops, not employed in the front line with rifle and bayonet (although their service was just as valuable) so "seeing some fighting" would be more by  (bad) luck than design.  His medal card tells us he was in France from 23 August 1914 and as the 1st Indian Cav Div did not arrive there until later, he must have deployed with someone else.  Need more digging for more clues.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/1st-indian-cavalry-division-later-4th-cavalry-division/ is an outline of the division's history in the Great War.

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 February 17 15:53 GMT (UK) »
Further.  His medal card shows that he belonged at one time to a Base Horse Transport Depot, likely to have been where he started in France, there were such depots at Le Havre and Rouen.
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline Purdie1972

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 February 17 18:03 GMT (UK) »
That's brilliant. Thank you so much for your help. I downloaded the diary. There was no mention of him on the dates of the incident, the court martial or when he was let off his punishment - I doubt he was important enough to be mentioned - but I've managed to find the names of some towns which were all around the Bethune area, north of the Somme, so I guess he must have been in that region. I thought he probably wouldn't have been involved in any fighting, but I just wanted to make sure. That's interesting about the Base Horse Transport Depot. I'll keep looking. Do you know where they landed in France if they sailed from Dublin?
Kind regards,
Claire
Researching:
Gallon/McKenzie/Donnison - Northumb.
Saxton/Brailsford/Bircumshaw/Fox/Ellis - Notts.
Bunt/Retallack/Rouse/Rowse/Solomon - Cornwall
Anderson/Jamieson/McArthur/Thomson - Edinburgh
Lewis - Berks./Oxon.
Williams/Walker - Glos.
Huckin - Oxon


Offline Purdie1972

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 09 February 17 18:10 GMT (UK) »
Actually, I've just had a look at the longlongtrail and it says there was a depot at Woolwich - ASC Company 2 - also called the No 3 Reserve HT Depot. When he re-engaged(?) in 1912, it was at Woolwich.
Researching:
Gallon/McKenzie/Donnison - Northumb.
Saxton/Brailsford/Bircumshaw/Fox/Ellis - Notts.
Bunt/Retallack/Rouse/Rowse/Solomon - Cornwall
Anderson/Jamieson/McArthur/Thomson - Edinburgh
Lewis - Berks./Oxon.
Williams/Walker - Glos.
Huckin - Oxon

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 09 February 17 22:14 GMT (UK) »
It isn't certain that the 3 Reserve Depot was at Woolwich in 1912, the LLT refers to the war years,although it was the home of ASC records to which he was told to report in 1912.  So all we can say is that some time between then and August 1914 he found himself in Dublin where he   was mobilized in August 14.
His medal card records only one unit, Base Horse Transport Depot, and must refer to the beginning of his active war service.  On his conduct sheet, above the details of his court martial, one can make out the very faint words "AF (Army Form) B122 (the conduct sheet) was received with this man on posting (illegible) Base Horse Tpt (transport) Depot Havre (Le Havre)".  No 10 Company was there with 1 Base Depot from Aug 14 so it is highly likely that, although there is no date on the extant conduct sheet, he went to Le Havre from Dublin arriving on 23 August 1914 (date on his medal card).  There is a diary for 10 Company for the beginning of the war http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/602a8c6240b3445e9fd08f9b4200cf04

The faint entry implies, although one can't be certain as obviously much of his record is missing, that he went from No 10 Company to 426 Company, there is no record of when this happened .  All that is known is that he was with the 1st Indian Cavalry Division at the time of his court martial in 1916.
Another invisible area is where was he after 1st Indian Cavalry Divsion was broken up in March 1918.  The later diary for 426 Company http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351568
appears to show that the month of January 1918 was spent in dispersing men, horses and equipment in all directions.  There are no clues as to where any individuals may have gone and there is no further diary.  He didn't return from overseas until May 1919 so there is a large gap there with no indication on his record at all.  Frustrating I know but par for the course, particularly when his record is almost devoid of useful dates and units!  My feeling is we have squeezed as much as is possible out of the record.

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline Purdie1972

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Army Service Corps 1st Indian Cavalry Division
« Reply #6 on: Friday 10 February 17 09:42 GMT (UK) »
This has all been so helpful. Thank you so much. I'll download the diary and have a look at it. I went into this not even expecting to find any records for him at all because I knew a large number had been destroyed by fire. My mother will find this all very interesting as she remembers him from when she was a little girl. My grandmother always said that he was "missing" for a period during the war (a year to 18 months) and there was no money coming in. I can't believe he was (seriously) wounded because his pension form makes no mention of it and anyway, as you say, he wouldn't have seen any fighting. I wonder if it was during these later months when men were being dispersed everywhere.
Anyway, your input has been invaluable and I'm really grateful.
Many thanks.
Claire
Researching:
Gallon/McKenzie/Donnison - Northumb.
Saxton/Brailsford/Bircumshaw/Fox/Ellis - Notts.
Bunt/Retallack/Rouse/Rowse/Solomon - Cornwall
Anderson/Jamieson/McArthur/Thomson - Edinburgh
Lewis - Berks./Oxon.
Williams/Walker - Glos.
Huckin - Oxon