Keenan/Berry/Knowles/McKenzie/Hutchinson travelers names in Cumberland, ENG?

[charlesmkeenan1]

Hello all:
I have been doing some research into the origins of some of my relatives from Cumberland, ENG.
For some, like the Berry's, I have found evidence (e.g. occupations listed as horse dealers and fortune tellers, living in tents) even following immigration to the USA (e.g. PA census 1901).
With others such as the Keenan's I see they immigrated from Down, IRL in the 1845 timeline and some were listed as hawkers. John Keenan;b.1835;IRL eventually established a china shop in Cockermouth, ENG that lasted until the 1970's. He apparently sold some of the pots/china produced by the McKenzie's his in-laws. The Hutchinson's were basket makers. The Knowles also appear to be travelers and intermarried into the Keenan family many times.
Some of the first Keenan marriages noted in Cumberland were: Bernard Doran and Susannah Keenan, John Keenan and Elizabeth McKenzie, Susanna Keenan and John Watterson, then James Boyd, Ann Keenan and John Burns.
Other Keenan's seemed to stay in the coal mining industry for a number of years.
Does anyone have any additional insight into these surnames and their relationship to English Traveler community?
Best regards from Western NY
Chuck Keenan

[fitzaoife]

hello Chuck,
How interesting, I am researching O'Keenan/Keenan in Co Down. The family were certainly wealthy in the early 1800's but because they remained RC at that period of history, certain descendants became very impoverished by the end of 1870 onward. The branch's that went to France (silk merchants) and Dublin City (scholars and professional types) remain either wealthy or well to do, those who went to Scotland were impoverished and mostly ended up in the Coal mining industry, some who went to England were either wealthy manufacturers or very impoverished. The same for those who went to America. It is an interesting family to research as you can see how the laws etc had an effect on the family's circumstances. In the early 1800's the family were cultured, highly literate and wealthy.
It would be interesting to see if some of this family ended up as traveller's, travellers a strong part of the keepers of story telling and traditional music in Ireland. Also a people displaced and discriminated against. It would be a very interesting social study if some of the Keenan descendants' originally from Co. Fermanagh who settled around Kilcoo Co Down before emigrating around the world, ended up as travellers in England
regards
Aoife

[charlesmkeenan1]

Hi Aoife:
Thanks for responding.
Well, since I wrote that original note re: Travellers in Cumberland, ENG I have learned that my Keenan line were not in themselves Travellers.
My gr gr gr grandfather, Felix Keenan, was a poor agricultural worker in the Ards Peninsula in County Down when he took his family across the Irish Sea to Dearham, Cumberland, ENG. His sons were hawkers and coal miners there. His brothers appear to have been coal miners and military. So no Travellers. My gr gr grandfather, his son John, was a hawker and sold pots door to door. Eventually he opened up a China shop in Cockermouth, Cumberland, ENG which was there for many years. The Keenan's did well in Cockermouth with a Marine store, used furniture store, apartments and horse sales. None of this trickled down to my line...lol. My line left Cockermouth for Rochester, NY USA about 1910 and settled there.
Do you know of any other Keenan's in the Greyabbey/Kircubbin Co Down, NI area?
The Berry and Hutchinson families in Cumberland appear to have more close ties to the Traveller community there.
Best regards from Western NY
Chuck

[Darnity]

Have you seen "Who was Ann Gregg?" by David Cooper Holmes (ISBN 978-0-9931835-8-4)

[fitzaoife]

Thank you for your reply Chuck, best of luck in your research
regards
Aoife FitzGerald

[Sandel1]

I am sorting out a DNA match in Northern Ireland.  It appears to be based on a cousin of my Grandmother to some degree, surnamed Scullion,  marrying into Stewart, a traveller family where two sisters Emma and Martha married in Newry Registry Office, the daughters of a James Stewart, a dealer.  Emma married William Knowles also a dealer.   My DNA match tells me her father Robert Stewart had a sister Emma who married Knowles (unknown first name) and later became known as Oceania Queen of the Gypsies, possible death in England 1957
 and this is her main point of doing the DNA.   Any info that could verify this and lead us to connections appreciated.   I found the Knowles couple to have had a daughter Margaret in Downpatrick shortly after marriage, and then a son William born in Ballycastle at the opposite end of Northern Ireland a couple of years later early September, they could have been there for the Aug Bank Hol Lammass Horse Fair still going.  And they may have stayed long enough to meet one of my Gran's relatives who are from that area.  We'll get the latter sorted but keen to find out more about Oceania!