JARVEY William Andrew - Scotland/Tasmania?/Australia

[rosball]

Great finds Maggsie   
G'night,
  Ros

[Redman1946]

Hi Ros and Maggsie

Sorry if I have made this all a bit confusing and not getting back very quickly; only my second time on Rootschat so I'm just getting the hang of it!

My great grandfather, William Andrew Jarvey (1853-?) had 5 children.

After he left the family my great grandmother, Jane Jarvey (nee Ford) emigrated to Australia in 1909   together with her daughter Catherine who had married George McNally, and her sons Frank Edward and John Thomas. Her son James England (my grandfather) went but returned shortly afterwards. Her eldest son William Henry Jarvey had already gone in 1894 by stowing away on board ship to try and find his father.

I have numerous cousins in Australia, but so far we have not been able to trace any record of William Andrew Jarvey (1853-?) before his marriage to Jane Ford in 1878 or after he left his family in the UK in the late 1800's, apart from the newspaper article about William Henry's search.

The connection to William Andrew Jarvey (1823-1865) and his wife Catherine Jane Shaw, has only been made because my great grandfather gave these names as his parents on his marriage record. He also said that his father was a Pawnbroker. This was William Andrew Snr's occupation from 1853-56.

We have two theories:

Either William Andrew Jnr was born in Ireland as he claimed in the 1881 census and his parents were a different William, also a Pawnbroker, and Catherine Jane Shaw, possibly living in Ireland. I haven't been able to trace them, but Irish records can be very difficult to find.

Or William Andrew Jnr was born in Tasmania to the William and Catherine Jane Shaw living there,  and came to the UK and got married in Scotland in 1878. The notoriety of his father's trial may have caused him to leave Tasmania and be a little secretive about his past.

This is where the family have come up against a brick wall, even the Australian descendants. We can't prove either of these scenarios.

Thanks for your comments and what you have found.

 

[rosball]

It's an interesting search Redman 

Sorry not finding anything useful but the Tassie couple seem to be very likely as the parents (and missing birth or death regs in that era are quite possible).

Still looking ...

Ros
adding : I wonder if the middlename England is a clue.  WAJ sen had a son England and WAJ jun had a son James England - not a middlename expected from a father born in Ireland and married in Scotland.

[majm]

Re the 1881 Census.

I wonder if the enumerator recorded "Ireland" instead of "Van Diemen's Land" or "Tasmania", perhaps after asking William A JARVEY "where's Van Diemen's Land" or "where's Tasmania" and William replying "It's an Island in the Antipodes". 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-SYXP

JM

[Redman1946]

Ros

Interesting that you thought about the name England as a connection. If William Andrew Snr is my great great grandfather, then my grandfather James England could have been named after William's son, his uncle England. I don't think its a common name.

William and Catherine's son, William James (b. 1848) did not go to New Zealand with them in 1862, as while they were there Andrew (b. 1853) was called the eldest son in all the newspaper reports. Also I can't find death records for William James, but then I can't find death records for most of their other children in Tasmania.

Did William James leave home, come to the UK and use the name William Andrew, although he would have changed his date of birth as well?

It's just deciding if all the clues are real links or just a lot of coincidences.



JM - That's certainly possible. William could also have had an unusual accent if his parents were Irish and he had been brought up in Tasmania, so he could easily have been misunderstood.


Thanks everyone for trying to find the answers.

Lynda

[matthewj64]

What a fascinating case!. I'll have a dig around in the Tas archives to see what I can find.

Just in case you haven't seen it, there's an old book about the trial that seems to have lots of details and clues about the family

https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Trial_of_Captain_Jarvey_on_a_Charge_of_P.html?id=5aIxAAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y

M

[rosball]

Great find Matthew     

I can't see a will for WAJ senior on NZ archives https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ or on tasmania links http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/ but I have rarely searched these sites (so happy to be corrected).

My initial reaction to thinking William Andrew jun may be William James was partly lack of death reg for William James (which can be ignored) and partly doubt that a 9 year-old could be left behind.   But yes he could have been apprenticed (possibly to a relative) and considered well-provided-for.  They started very young in those days (but still hard to get your mind around). 

I wonder if there are apprentice-ship records in Tas archives ...?

There don't seem to be any close relatives - the witnesses at the wedding are George Turner and John H Heyward http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jbd/

I wonder if Catherine's death certificate would have details of all her children.  Do you have this Lynda?

Just pondering ... 

Ros

[matthewj64]

I was also wondering if children had been left behind. There are records for 12 or so births (one to another woman), only 1 death record, and 7 children travelled to NZ; 2 dying before Mrs Jarvey's murder.

Suspicions arose following his trial
THE NEWS OF THE DAY. (1865, December 9). The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954), p. 5. Retrieved January 21, 2017, from http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155042227

[rosball]

Is there anything to exclude the Andrew born c1853 who did go to NZ from being WAJ jnr?  Often when parent and child shared a name the child was known by second name to distinguish them.

Ros