Christian Moffat

[cupcake]

The only doubt I have is, William would have been 69 in 1841 (he was born 1772).

How do you know for certain that he was the one born in 1772, if you can't find him in a census and you don't have a date of death and age at death?

There are 54 surviving baptism records of William Moffats (of varying spellings) in the Church of Scotland registers between 1760 and 1780, of whom 16 were baptised in Dumfries-shire. One of them was baptised in Dumfries itself on 9 May 1776, and would have been 65 on the date of the 1841 census if he survived.

Just because the one baptised in 1772 seems to fit, you cannot assume that he is the right one. Without other evidence, you cannot even assume that he was born in Dumfries, or even in Dumfries-shire rather than in one of the neighbouring counties. You need to look for evidence other than the parish registers, and that will not be easy to find.

The search isn't helped by the fact that only the baptisms of William and Christian's sons John and Andrew contain their mother's name. You will need to check all the baptisms in Dumfries of all the children of William Moffat without a mother's name in order to get a more complete list of their children in order, and hope that they followed the naming tradition.

I have William's baptisim from Scotlands People. 16th April 1772, Annan with the correct parents - James MOFFAT and Catherine MOFFAT(Dalgliesh).William & Christian Fraser were married in Annan 10 September 1796. If this is wrong where does that leave me? When I have credit I will look at the 9 May 1776.

[cupcake]

Scotlands People is down at the moment.

[Forfarian]

I have William's baptisim from Scotlands People. 16th April 1772, Annan with the correct parents - James MOFFAT and Catherine MOFFAT(Dalgliesh).

Yes, but what other evidence have you to prove that the William Moffat who married Christian Fraser was the son of James Moffat and Catherine Dalgleish rather than some other William Moffat born around the same time? Perhaps even one whose baptism record has not survived?

If this is wrong where does that leave me?

Looking at a brick wall like the rest of us 

Please don't misunderstand me. You may well be right, but you cannot assume anything on the basis of only the baptism and marriage records in the C of S parish registers without any corroborating evidence.

Did William Moffat and Christian Fraser name a daughter Catherine, for instance? If his mother's name was Catherine, you would expect his second daughter to be named Catherine after her. On the other hand, if he had more than two daughters and none was named Catherine, it would tend to suggest that his mother was not Catherine. But that's not infallible, of course.

[cupcake]

I agree with you regarding a daughter Catherine.

I haven't come across a Catherine as yet, the only daughter I have found is Mary B.1806 married to Joseph FLEMING, the rest were boys.

I will check later to see if there was a Catherine

[cupcake]

Have looked on Scotlands People and there are no Catherine MOFFAT births 1795/1806

[Forfarian]

No, but that doesn't mean to say that there wasn't one whose baptism has not survived. I see that there were no baptisms of children in Dumfries with father William Moffat from 1796 to 1801. There could have been two children, or even three, in that space of five years. Then there is another gap of five years between Jannet in 1801 and the first Mary in 1806.

[cupcake]

T hank you for all that. I didn't know about the Jannet in 1801. William had sisters Janet and Mary - but I am surprised I haven't come across a Catherine, but as you mention, it doesn't mean to say that there wasn't one whose baptism has not survived.

[Forfarian]

T hank you for all that. I didn't know about the Jannet in 1801. William had sisters Janet and Mary - but I am surprised I haven't come across a Catherine, but as you mention, it doesn't mean to say that there wasn't one whose baptism has not survived.

The Jannet in 1801 is in the list of children of at least two William Moffats in Dumfries posted upthread ^ by telmark.

However, again, you can't assume that this Jannet's mother was Christian Fraser. The reason for this is that there were, as telmark pointed out, apparently (at least) two William Moffats, both sons of William Moffats and both baptised in Dumfries within a month of one another - one on 22 February 1810 and one on 21 March 1810. It is conceivable that this is the sam baptism recorded twice, but IMO unlikely because the first one has a middle name and the second one doesn't.

As for the names of William's sisters, that's fine, assuming of course that he is the right William. You would expect him, if his mother was Catherine, to have a sister Catherine, but only if he had more than two sisters, because the tradition is to name the third daughter after the mother.

However it's the names of William's daughters that would help to confirm his identity, and with at least two gaps of 5 years each between children (or a gap of 11 years if Jannet b 1801 isn't the daughter of Christian Fraser) it's impossible to be certain.

It's a bit like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle with a third of the pieces missing! 

[telmark]

If possible I would head down to a place with scotlands people access for £15, and check each and every BMD to see what information is contained therein.