Author Topic: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921  (Read 4572 times)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #9 on: Monday 16 January 17 14:45 GMT (UK) »
Birth years can be out a bit from one record to the next but usually the date (day and month) are fairly close so I'd be concerned about the two dates you've found-

He was born in a work house in Bedford on the 15th Feb 1902. To Ellen Very/Vary (Nee Reene) and Thomas Very/Vary When he joined the army he has given his birth date as 1st Aug 1901.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline carol8353

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #10 on: Monday 16 January 17 14:48 GMT (UK) »
This is the correct one.


VARY, FRANK        mothers maiden name REEN        
GRO Reference: 1902  M Quarter in BEDFORD  Volume 03B  Page 300 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Annie65115

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #11 on: Monday 16 January 17 14:56 GMT (UK) »
Whoops, my error, I copied the wrong one, didn't mean to pick up a 1904 birth in Sheppey at all!! lol
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline carol8353

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #12 on: Monday 16 January 17 15:00 GMT (UK) »
Whoops, my error, I copied the wrong one, didn't mean to pick up a 1904 birth in Sheppey at all!! lol

 ;D and I meant to say that I couldn't find another child with the surname Very or Vary and the same MMN for 10 years either side of 1902.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Online Annie65115

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #13 on: Monday 16 January 17 15:12 GMT (UK) »
If Ellen was given as NOK in 1919, presumably Thomas wasn't around then. Now I can't see any appropriate deaths of a Thomas Vary/Very between 1901 - 1919 on freeBMD, so does this mean that either he wasn't dead but the parents had separated, or that he had died outside England and Wales?
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Online Annie65115

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #14 on: Monday 16 January 17 15:28 GMT (UK) »
Whilst looking for the family in 1901 or 1911, I found a Thomas Vary, b Dublin, who was a costermonger (ie hawker). His "wife" was Alice, and their children had mmn Vickery.

There's no marriage for Vary/Vickery in the suggested timescale, but there are actually 2 marriages between a Thomas Vary and an Alice Vickery years later - in 1916 and then again (!) in 1929, both in Camberwell which is where this family lived in earlier censuses.

And that got me thinking. What if Thomas and Ellen's marital state was, shall we say, flexible? (only 2 children in 20 years is unusual, after all!) And what if surname usage was equally flexible?

That doesn't get us a lot further, but just to say that neither can I find any appropriate birth in the suggested county of Devon for the 10 yr old Frank R that I can see, "in care" in 1911 (is that cryptic enough not to count as a look up?)

This is probably completely irrelevant but in the absence of anything else obvious I was trying to think laterally.

I'm still a bit worried about whether Patrick born in Aug 1901 and Frank born in Feb 1902 are actually the same person.
Bradbury (Sedgeley, Bilston, Warrington)
Cooper (Sedgeley, Bilston)
Kilner/Kilmer (Leic, Notts)
Greenfield (Liverpool)
Holyland (Anywhere and everywhere, also Holiland Holliland Hollyland)
Pryce/Price (Welshpool, Liverpool)
Rawson (Leicester)
Upton (Desford, Leics)
Partrick (Vera and George, Leicester)
Marshall (Westmorland, Cheshire/Leicester)

Offline carol8353

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #15 on: Monday 16 January 17 15:51 GMT (UK) »
I'm still a bit worried about whether Patrick born in Aug 1901 and Frank born in Feb 1902 are actually the same person.

I've found the WW1 Surrey regimental Army rolls where Patrick is mentioned,it says he attested on 1/8/1922 at Kingston on Thames into the Queen's Royal West Surrey and was aged 21. He was a labourer,born in Bedford and his mother was Ellen Vary,36 Foster Road ,West Croydon. Sounds like he wasn't very good at maths or added a year to his age to make himself seem older.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Alan Vincent

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #16 on: Monday 16 January 17 15:55 GMT (UK) »
On the 1901 and 1911 census Thomas is listed as married to Alice (Vickery) although no marriage can be found, until 1916 and again in 1929. As Ellen Vary (Reene) died on the 16th Jan 1929 (l have copy of death cert) we believe they married bigamously in 1916 then again after Ellen death. They had 2 children from this marriage.
As mentioned earlier Frank/Patrick joined the army in 1919. We got his army records from the army number given on his marriage cert to my Grandmother so we know they are the correct records. No one knows were the name Patrick came from, l have asked my mother (his daughter) and her 3 brothers no one knows. We believe he lied to get in the army because he had such a terrible childhood.

Offline carol8353

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Re: My Grandfather Frank (Patrick) Vary, Life between 1905 and 1921
« Reply #17 on: Monday 16 January 17 16:04 GMT (UK) »
They do move about a lot don't they?

Bedford, West Croydon and then St Albans (and possibly other places in between)

Deaths Mar 1929   

Vary    Ellen    age 58    St.Albans    3a   1523
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk