Author Topic: Mary Caroline GRASMANN  (Read 1521 times)

Offline Rudolf H B

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Re: Mary Caroline GRASMANN
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 29 January 17 20:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

- Baiern is now Bayern - the answer is yes.
- Baiern Prussia is not existent in 1850, but Ansbach and Bayreuth (both Prussian) became a part of Bavaria in 1806
- Bavaria is catholic, Franconia lutheran or catholic, Ansbach and Bayreuth luth. or reformed
- Bavarian Palatinate is united with stress on reformed,or catholic ...

Regards
Rudolf from Palatinate
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Offline black.betty

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Re: Mary Caroline GRASMANN
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 29 January 17 20:30 GMT (UK) »
Sorry, I think I am a little bit crazy  ???
The dokument is for someone else.
Excuse me

Offline Rudolf H B

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Re: Mary Caroline GRASMANN
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 29 January 17 20:41 GMT (UK) »
Most of the Bavarian Grasmann are from Miltenberg county or southern Bavaria - both roman-catholic areas.

http://wiki-commons.genealogy.net/images/geogen/4/48/48b991bc39729484436e23e90f633d14_de.png
Goldschmidt; Gregory, Maude, Nancy Price, Welby (UK),
Goldschmidt > Goldsmith, Benetta, Bloom, Gillis, McDonough, Moses, Wheaton (Australia / NZ),
Spatz & Henderson (Greater London),
Herbert Spatz MC > H. Spence MC (Salisbury),
Spatz > Spence, Nichols. Kidd (Bromley > Manchester South, India),
Spatz > Spaatz (Boyertown, PA - USA),
Engel & Joly (Philadelphia, PA - USA).
Kummerer (London, Chicago & Australia).

WW1 - Cousins Killed in Action in the Australian, English, French & German Armies

Offline Rudolf H B

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Re: Mary Caroline GRASMANN
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 29 January 17 20:45 GMT (UK) »
The Grassmann ot Graßmann might be protestant or of Prussian origin.
Goldschmidt; Gregory, Maude, Nancy Price, Welby (UK),
Goldschmidt > Goldsmith, Benetta, Bloom, Gillis, McDonough, Moses, Wheaton (Australia / NZ),
Spatz & Henderson (Greater London),
Herbert Spatz MC > H. Spence MC (Salisbury),
Spatz > Spence, Nichols. Kidd (Bromley > Manchester South, India),
Spatz > Spaatz (Boyertown, PA - USA),
Engel & Joly (Philadelphia, PA - USA).
Kummerer (London, Chicago & Australia).

WW1 - Cousins Killed in Action in the Australian, English, French & German Armies


Offline Greaves

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Re: Mary Caroline GRASMANN
« Reply #13 on: Monday 30 January 17 13:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the help so far.

My prime interest is in a man named John DANIEL(S), who I believe was born in 1815 in North London. I then believed he served with the army of the East India Company, being discharged in 1855.

In 1861 there is a John DANIELS (aged 45) living in Hackney with a wife Gertrude (40, born in Germany), a daughter Mary (11, born in Germany), a daughter Elizabeth (5, born in Hackney), a daughter Sarah (2, born in Hackney) and a son George William (6 d, born in Hackney).

By 1871, John (56), Elizabeth (50, born in Germany) and George William (10) are still living in Hackney. Note that according to her death certificate, John's wife was called Gertrude Elizabeth. Their daughter Sarah died in 1867. I believe that Mary Caroline Grassman (the Mary from 1861), who had married Gustav Richard Mentzel in 1870.

In 1881, John (66) and Elizabeth (61) are still living in Hackney. Interestingly, they make another appearance in the 1881 census with Gustave and Mary Caroline in Marylebone, though John seems to have aged by 4 years.

1891 finds them still living in Hackney, whilst 1901 finds them living in Hackney with George James (51) and Elizabeth James (46). I believe that that Elizabeth James is the daughter from 1861, the Elizabeth Crossman who married George James in 1877.

John DANIEL(S) died in 1902 and Gertrude Elizabeth in 1903, both in Hackney.

Mary Caroline Grassman - b c1850 Germany, married Gustav Richard Mentzel in 1870. Her father according to her marriage certificate which I possess was a Joseph Grassman.

Elizabeth Crossman [anglicised Grassman?] - b c1855, Hackney, married George JAMES in 1877. I can't find a reliable birth certificate. I have one for 1854 Whitechapel, where the father is Peter Crossman, a labourer. I don't think this is correct. I do, however, possess her marriage certificate, where her father is named as Daniel Crossman.

Sarah DANIELS - b 1859, Hackney, d 1867 Hackney. I possess both birth and death certificates for Sarah. Her father was definitely John DANIEL(S) and her MMN was PONTE.

George William DANIELS - b 1861, Hackney. I possess his birth certificate. His father was definitely John DANIEL(S) and his MMN was PONT.

There are several problems:

(1) There are at least two fathers, possibly three. Clearly Sarah and George were fathered by John DANIELS, whereas Mary Caroline and Elizabeth were fathered by Joseph Grassman and Daniel Crossman, who may or may not be the same person.

(2) I do not possess birth certificates for either Mary Caroline or Elizabeth.

(3) I cannot find a marriage for John DANIEL(S) to Gertrude Elizabeth. There is one to an Elizabeth RHODES in Hackney in 1957, but I can't reconcile this to any of the possible surnames, i.e. Grassman, Crossman or PONT(E).

One last point, at various times John is described as an army pensioner, labourer, gardener and french polisher. This is consistent with many of the reports concerning his natural/step children.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share what I know about the family to save others time and energy.

As always, I would be grateful for any help or clarifications.