"Who Do You Think You Are" Series 13, Episode 5 Ricky Tomlinson

[jillruss]

I do wish some Rootschatters would stop being quite so precious and anxious to kill any debate that doesn't fit their personal model.   

[sallyyorks]

I think "Protestant" in the context of the program was used in the sense that that was the word used by Catholics to describe non-Catholics ie all other Christians....not that I'm arguing this was the correct word to use, but that was how it was. 

But the programme was about a Church of England family. This is why I couldn't understand all the references to Protestants and Catholics. I couldn't understand what relevance it had to the story

In the late 1950s in Manchester, I remember a little girl aged about 6 telling me she hated me (also aged about 6)  because she was a Proddy-dog and I was a Catty-cat, so "Protestant" was clearly a word used by the whole community at that time.

This might have been more an imported bigotry though?, and nothing to do with religion in England, which was religiously varied before the immigration anyway.  If you had a school or area with a high proportion of Irish or Scottish "proddys" and "catts", then this is their experience of each other before migrating into England. It just carried on between them after they arrived

[Blue70]

The programme pretended that sectarianism in Liverpool had all faded away by the start of the Great War.

Not many years ago I worked with a chap from Liverpool who supported Liverpool FC. His father refused to speak to him, because Liverpool are the "Catholic" club, while Everton are the "Protestants". My workmate explained "He's in the Orange Lodge and everything".

Maybe it was not obvious to RT or those making the programme, but there are still those in Liverpool who will treat him as a traitor for marrying who he did.

As for the "class struggle" in Liverpool, there are those who have still not forgiven the dockers there for going on strike in 1943.

Traditionally Everton FC had more supporters from an Irish RC background.


Blue

[sallyyorks]

Regarding the genealogists comment on the programme about not being able to go back prior to 1837, as per my previous post, someone asked her about this on twitter - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j4r/.  You don't need a twitter account to read the replies, just click on the twitter post and you can see the genealogist's response if it doesn't appear.

 
"microfilm loading"

Hasn't she heard of the wonderful, comprehensive and free resource known as Lancashire OPC !
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
(contains a total of 8930815 records from 8429 Registers)

[sallyyorks]

edit deleted
double post

[smudwhisk]

"microfilm loading"

Hasn't she heard of the wonderful, comprehensive and free resource known as Lancashire OPC !
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
(contains a total of 8930815 records from 8429 Registers)

I think the microfilm loading may have been a bit tongue in cheek so to speak.

Yes the OPC sites are a good finding aid, but they are of course transcriptions that need to be checked against the originals, as with all secondary source material.

[plimmerian]

It was great to see a "commoner" history investigated - especially when it involved the area and the occupation of my own ancestors too !

I have CofE carters in my tree who didn't live up in Everton and where closer to the docks - they came from County Durham and not Ireland

I also have Scottish shipwrights who also lived down by the docks who baptised children as Catholics and CofE also

It seems in my own research there was more mingling of faiths and people from a wider community than just an Irish one which wasn't portrayed in the programme!

It was sad not to find out if the Tomlinsons were also immigrants to the area before registration - as I also had a Manchester link who moved to Liverpool whose mother was a Tomlinson!

Ruby stole the show! 

[Blue70]

There wasn't really cause for the programme to cover sectarianism. No religious issue as far as we know with RT's family. I think they slotted that in to add some history. I do find it interesting but it's not easy to cover in this format. There was sectarianism in Liverpool with children raised in different schools and told not to marry out with often the threat of being disowned. It survived into the modern era probably fading out in the 1970s after the housing clearances.

My Nan was raised in Everton and was brainwashed with lots of anti-Catholic dogma. My Grandad was a Catholic from the North Docks area. We never knew he was an RC she kept it quiet it was never discussed. People could be very contradictory. I suppose if you were forced out of your house or abused by the other side you would be bitter. The 1909 Riots may have left some with bitter memories:-
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/liverpool/hi/people_and_places/religion_and_ethics/newsid_8241000/8241927.stm


Blue   

[gaffy]

Regarding the genealogists comment on the programme about not being able to go back prior to 1837, as per my previous post, someone asked her about this on twitter - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j4r/.  You don't need a twitter account to read the replies, just click on the twitter post and you can see the genealogist's response if it doesn't appear.

I suspected this was the case, as someone said, non-genealogists are the main audience and I don't think the programme was intended to be pored over forensically by genealoginerds like me who have the benefit of hindsight not available at the time of shooting.  For a programme with a finite time constraint I imagine that a certain amount of licence is permitted to make the story flow.  With a high dependency throughout on obtaining a natural, spontaneous reaction from the celebrity and effective interactions with the experts, I imagine that frequent retakes are not desireable and that clever editing won't address every bit of loose or shorthand language used.