"Who Do You Think You Are" Series 13, Episode 5 Ricky Tomlinson

[Blue70]

The Irish people who came to Liverpool in the 19th century were mostly from the labouring class who were starving on the land, before and after the Famine. There was work available for them in Liverpool and the support of neighbours and a network of RC churches. They were better off in Liverpool that's why so many settled. It was easy for them to return to Ireland if they wanted to go back.

I always understood that many of the Irish who settled in Liverpool had gone there as the first stage in emigrating to America, as that was where most emigrant ships sailed from.  Some got no further, either because they 'liked' it, or they didn't want to pay the fare.

That's a bit of a myth. Liverpool was both a stepping stone and a final destination. Part of the anti-Irish prejudice was the belief that the Liverpool Irish were the failures (Head Police Constable William Nott-Bower said that in his autobiography published in 1926) of the waves of emigration. There was a contradictory attitude to the Irish. Their labour was usually welcomed but their presence was often unwanted.


Blue

[Blue70]

For most of the people there was no going back, the landowners had got them off the land & wouldn't have them back. There was no security of tenure in Scotland until the Crofting Acts of the 1880's, Ireland would just pre-date this & once a generation had grown up in the city, life in the country was alien to them. The hardship & inhumanity suffered at that time sowed the seeds of the rebellion, civil war. partition & the troubles which have continued to this day.

Skoosh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29

I think most people would agree that Ireland was a badly governed country in the 19th century and the lack of prospects caused a mass movement of people out of Ireland that continued well into the 20th century.


Blue

[coombs]

I felt closer to this episode as my ancestor who emigrated from Durham to the USA in 1886 to join an emigrant daughter out there sailed from Liverpool, and he returned to England a few years later then returned to America, this time for good, in April 1892 and sailed from Liverpool.

Also I have an ancestor sibling was a railwayman from Oxfordshire who moved to Liverpool. He married there, so his father's (my ancestor) name and rank is given in a Liverpool church. I quite liked Brookside and The Royle Family but yes, Ricky did act like he was the only one whose ancestors lived in slums.

[Blue70]

I avoided any spoilers for this episode. I thought there might have been something surprising such as an ancestor who was a slave trader or a Tory. I was hoping for an Irish Catholic ancestor to show how contrary to the supposed differences of the past, people married who they wanted to marry. My own family tree has a number of mixed marriages.


Blue

[jillruss]

I liked this one! To me, it was 'proper' genealogy - not all this 'related to royalty' rubbish.

It was about ordinary working class people and Ricky was right to say what he did - politics, or no! I thought the comment about him cutting his hair made by a previous poster was right out of the ark. If someone had commented on the amount of make up Cheryl or Amanda was wearing there would have (rightly) been an outcry.

As someone said, the man isn't instantly likeable and I will admit to not being a great fan of his, but I respect what he had to say and, as the saying goes, would defend his right to say it.

Long may this series continue in following through a few generations and not concentrating on one ancestor as in previous series.

I understand its Father Christmas next week!!! 

[ChrissieL]

I enjoyed this episode. I liked the social history side of it and I liked the way it followed the generations back. These programmes are made for general viewing and I think they try to make sure it's not too complicated to understand.  My relatives were Carter's in the North East so it was interesting to see just how many Carter's there were around moving goods to and from the docks

Chris

[Clarkey500]

An interesting episode and different to the other 4 so far. I don't think it was the best of the series and was probably more nearer the bottom.

I like the fact that he wanted to know more especially about the illegal postmortem and that he did some research himself. However, like many others, on here, I found him very individualist about his ancestors. The jumping to conclusions was also another down point to this episode. Also, the fact that near the beginning the lady he was with said that they couldn't get back further because "civil registration began in 1837" - yes they did but surely there would be parish and other records to get back further. Perhaps the next generation up weren't carters...  In my opinion, he should have gone back a generation at a time and finished with the last carter and found out that his father did something else but never mind. Looking forward to the next one! 

[alpinecottage]

...  I thought Ricky Tomlinson got a bit individual about everything, as though it was only his family that came from that background, being carters and poor, industrial schools and everything.     Wasn't impressed with the few seconds of weeping about someone's plight 150 years ago.

It is difficult to put ourselves in the shoes of the subjects of WDYTYA because we have been doing genealogy for some time, we have been through the slow process of learning about certificates, censuses, newspaper reports and so on, and on the way, we have become aware of the scale of sufferings and early deaths in the 19th and early 20th century.  I imagine it would be quite a shock to be presented with certificates naming your ancestors (especially when they share your name), then be told "Oh, he died young" "He died in an industrial accident"  "She had 9 children but only two made it to adulthood" etc etc.  Ricky and some other subjects clearly don't seem to have had very advanced educations and have obviously not considered what life may have been like for most before antibiotics and the modern health and social services came along.

[sallyyorks]

I was surprised that RT didn't seem to already know that most people, across England, would have been working class, with many living in crowded slum conditions due to industrialisation. As another poster said, it wasn't exceptional to his family.

Also thought the descriptions of Liverpool's religions was too simplistic. There would already have been many English Catholics in Lancashire, as well as the dominant Church of England. Methodism was popular in the north too and also "Chapel" from the many Welsh Immigrants into Liverpool. There are also all the religiously mixed families, which contradicts the exaggerated "sectarian" narrative of the programme

I was confused as to why they insisted on using the word "Protestant", incessantly, to describe a family who were Church of England?  I wouldn't describe the CoE as a strictly "Protestant" church, not in the same way as Scottish Calvinist is for example. The CoE still retains many Catholic features.

As with the Liz Bonnin episode, I thought there was too much political agenda and supposition going on