Re-Turnbull/Hounam from Langholm

[MonicaL]

fiveboys5, it looks like with everyone's contributions, you likely need to review your links for Joseph. It looks like the family from Langholm is not the correct family of Turnbulls for your Joseph. Conclusive proof really that it is not the right family, with the details posted by Jonn and fab3bird above.

Rosie has posted the census details from South Shields for 1901. Is this the correct family? 1881 census here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q271-ZQYH and 1891 here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WV19-VPZ  In 1891, Joseph's birth places shows as N K (not known) supposed Scotland. 1911 as Rosie has mentioned, an Edinburgh birth place is given https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCZ-8MN

What does it say on his marriage to Elizabeth (what was her maiden name? Possibly Lumsden or Smithwhite from an 1874 marriage entry in South Shields - likely Smithwhite from the details on the 1891 census) regarding his father?

Monica

[rosie17]

Monica he married Elizabeth Smithwhite 
Rosie

[MonicaL]

Thanks Rosie 

Can't see much that fits back in Scotland in the earlier censuses. From 1871, for any Joseph Turnbull born in the 1850s in Scotland, we have:

Joseph aged 12, born in Glasgow, with parents Joseph and Elizabeth. Living in Glasgow.

Joseph aged 14, born in England, adopted by a Mary Davidson, living in Glasgow.

Joseph aged 14, born in Langholm, the son of Thomas and Ann discussed above.

Joseph aged 12, born in Morebattle, son of Jane (husband William), living in Channelkirk.

Couldn't see anything that would fit in England for him in 1871.

In 1861, same Josephs as above, except:

English born Joseph does not show.

A further Joseph born c.1850. Son of a Thomas and Helen. Born and living in Cavers.

Not much to work with really...

Monica

[fiveboys5]

Thank you all so very much, I do have a Joseph Turnbull, My Nanna's Father who died about 1925 in South Shields. He did marry Elizabeth Smithwhite from South Shields. I have had other correspondence from someone via Ancestry today which near enough matches the information given by yourselves. I am sorry but it may appear my Son HAS got the wrong family. I feel embarrassed by it all as I have been chasing the wrong line via my Son. He cross matched everything and was convinced he was right. I am hoping to see a Cousin who has some family information but it might not be on the family I am looking for. My Uncle found the family but I was never told where?  ROSIE was correct the family did live in Adelaide Street South Shields where I believe my Nanna was born. I have got the marriage certificate of Joseph's marriage to Elizabeth Smithwhite he was 19 and she was 21, his Father was Thomas(deceased) I have no Elderly relatives alive who can assist me and My son does not have the time to search the records again to see where he went wrong as I now believe he is. So that leaves me with a puzzle. Where was Joseph Born, where was Thomas Turnbull his Father from? I am truly stuck in moving on from my limited information. Thank you for your input, I am not experienced at all in searching records and the family tree online is administered by my Son.

[Ayashi]

Don't be too embarrassed, I'm sure most of us have had a bad twig here and there, or been convinced of a birth/marriage/death and then been proven wrong, at least you found out rather than investing any more time in it! I'd like to believe that my tree is correct but who knows, maybe some time in the future I'll find out differently.

Sadly all part of doing family history 

[rosie17]

Hi fiveboys no need to apologise we all make mistakes better to find the right information ..One thing I did notice for Joseph he said birth place Edinburgh British Sub by parentage  ..
Rosie

[fiveboys5]

I have just this morning remembered being told when I was a young child, that Joseph was supposedly lost as a little boy and somehow if true he had climbed onto a cart and fell asleep? If what I have been told is true he could have been found and looked after by a woman somewhere in Scotland until his family were found. He next from what I can learn ended up in North Shields? he would have been in his teens. Marrying Elizabeth Smithwhite when he was 19 in South Shields. His marriage certificate says he was from Scotland? So all in all it is a huge mystery. My cousins and I were very young when we were told this and non of us can remember any exact details. None of what I have just said is provable as my Cousins would have all been told similar stories. Joseph died before my Mother was born so everything must have come from my Nanna. Could it be he was from a Gypsy family? I remember my Mother telling me his parents travelled around local villages and put on a travelling light/lantern show? She danced while Thomas? played an intrument of some sort I really cannot remember much at all but spoke to a Cousin who is my age and she seems to recall the story of him being lost and that the family had connections to Galshiels. My Nanna would have told my Mother and the rest of the family the story of her Father and my Aunts would have told their children my Cousins. I just wish I have something more concrete to work on.

[MonicaL]

Very likely that Joseph had confused early years which is why you are having such a difficulty in finding his origins 

The best possibility may the Joseph who shows as the adopted son of Mary Davidson in 1871. He doesn't show in 1881 in Scotland I don't think. 1871 entry below:

Mary Davidson 42 charwoman
Alexander Davidson 8 son b. Glasgow
Joseph Turnbull 14 adopted son foundry boy b. England
Charles Oniel 13 adopted son foundry boy b. Glasgow

Address: 15 Brown Street, Glasgow/Milton

Most of the other Josephs can be eliminated over the years from the censuses in Scotland.

Other than deceased, was there no occupation showing for Joseph's father Thomas on his marriage cert?

Monica

[rosie17]

Monica I also wondered about that one being the adopted son in Glasgow
Rosie