Missing Ancestor's Birth

[Bram Taylor]

As you can see from the attached certificates, there is an "H" before
Abbot both in the marriage cert. and in the birth cert. of Blakey
Hartley Abbott. I can understand this discrepancy as I have on occasions
had people pronounce my name with an "H". Must be our pronunciation!!

Blakey and Hartley have been used on a number of occasions in the family
of Thomas but I still don't know where Blakey Hartley fits in the family
other than Thomas went to live with him and Betty at some stage before
1851 as you can see from the census. He is either a family member
somehow or is very well respected by Thomas and Rachael. There is no
mention of either Blake or Betty prior to the 1851 census so you guess
is as good as mine but obviously there is some connection.

It is still a mystery why Thomas would be living with them and why he
doesn't appear on the 1841 census, surely both Joseph and Alice couldn't
have died before 1841??? Of course it is quite possible.
Bram

[Bram Taylor]

In order to get back on to some solid ground, here is some information off the Birth Certificate of Blakey Hartley Abbott
Born 25 December 1852 at Barnoldswick, Registration district of Skipton. Registered 22 of January 1853
Father: Thomas Habbet, Mother: Rachel Habbet, formerly Atkinson, Occupation of father: Tailor
Rachel Made her mark
===================
Here is the Marriage of Thomas Abbott, his father:
Marriage, 21 July 1851, The Parish Church, parish of Barnoldswick, County of York
Thomas Habbet, 22, Bachelor, Tailor, Residence at Time of Marriage, Barnoldswick
Father's name: Blakey Hartley, Labourer
Rachel Atkinson, 20, Spinster, Tailor, (Do), Residence at time of Marriage, Barnoldswick
Father, Thomas Atkinson, Tailor
Witnesses: Broughton Atkinson & Richard Hiddup
====================
Thomas Habbett,
Thomas

This is an extract of a copy of the Marriage Certificate of Thomas Abbott, (spelt Habbett) and Rachel Atkinson

[heywood]

Thanks for the information.

Your first post says that Joseph is your great great uncle   

Who is your great great ancestor - direct line? Perhaps naming and finding that person would help solve any mystery.

Is your post an error? Are you descended from Joseph via Thomas?

Heywood

[chempat]

Think we are going over previously covered ground:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=135112.0

Do you have any information about Joseph after his baptism? 

Can you post an actual census that you have found him in?

Thank-you

[Bram Taylor]

Yes, it is complicated because I have a double connection up to Thomas and then Joseph because my mother's father, my maternal grandfather firstly married a Rachel Sewell who is in a parallel line down from Joseph/Thomas and as well, my uncle Thomas William Abbott, has a direct line through to Joseph as well and when I try and assess my connection in 'Tools/Relationship Calculator in Family Tree Maker it immediately tracks me through my grandfather's line, NOT my uncle which of course gives me that he is the "Paternal Grandfather of wife of Maternal Grandfather".
So, going the proper way you have Thomas William Abbott, Uncle, Atkinson Abbott, Great Uncle, Broughton Abbott as Great Great Uncle and then Thomas Hartley Abbott, Great Great Great Uncle and finally, we have the enigmatic Joseph at the top of the tree, (Not counting his dad, George) making Great Great Great Great uncle, if you go that way which I suppose you do so - It seems I am a couple of greats out, if that matters?

 As you can see from the certificates, there is an "H" before
'Abbet' both in the marriage cert. and in the birth cert. of Blakey
Hartley Abbott.
Blakey and Hartley have been used on a number of occasions in the family
of Thomas but I still don't know where Blakey Hartley fits in the family
other than Thomas went to live with him and Betty at some stage before
1851 as you can see from the census. He is either a family member
somehow or is very well respected by Thomas and Rachael. There is no
mention of either Blake or Betty prior to the 1851 census so you guess
is as good as mine but obviously there is some connection.

It is still a mystery why Thomas would be living with them and why he
doesn't appear on the 1841 census, surely both Joseph and Alice couldn't
have died before 1841??? Of course it is quite possible?
My mother's father, William Thomas Sewell initially married a Rachel Abbott who is the daughter of Thomas Hartley Abbott who is the son of the elusive Joseph that is the person I want to locate in 1841 or a baptism/birth someplace?
The other more regular line is from my uncle, Thomas William Abbott, b 1902 in Nelson, his dad was Atkinson Abbott b 1st of April 1880 in Barnoldswick, his dad was Broughton Abbott born 1 April 1855 in Barnoldswick, then his father was Thomas Hartley Abbott who I think you may have come across born 4th of February 1829 in Heptonstall and then the mysterious 'Joseph' I want to identify.
Thanks for your help,
Bram Taylor

[chempat]

You have put:
Thomas William Abbott, Uncle, Atkinson Abbott, Great Uncle, Broughton Abbott as Great Great Uncle and then Thomas Hartley Abbott, Great Great Great Uncle and finally, we have the enigmatic Joseph at the top of the tree,

Thomas William Abbott born when and where?

Atkinson Abbott born when and where? 

Broughton Abbott born when and where?

Thomas Hartley Abbott born when and where?

Joseph which census is he in?

Are these men all direct sons of the person next in the chain?

Thank-you

[heywood]

I can see and follow that Rachel Abbott, daughter of Thomas Abbott  married William Thomas Sewell but you don't seem to refer to her as your maternal grandmother - only as the wife of your maternal grandfather.
Does this mean that as far as direct line is concerned you do not connect to Thomas Abbott.

However, your uncle is Thomas William Abbott. Again, you have  his line and he is connected to Rachel Abbott but is his also only a connection to you through marriage and not blood related?
Did he marry your blood relative aunt?
It just helps to clarify the situation and also you want to find out the link between Blakey H and Thomas.

[heywood]

I can't remember how you know that Joseph's father was George? Where is the information?

[Bram Taylor]

Hi
This was the basis of that information
Baptism: 1786 Ref: D30
Joseph Abbott
Son of George and Sarah Abbott
Wakefield all Saints, Wakefield, West Yorkshire
Page 46
November 4th 1786
Wakefield All Saints
Wakefield, West Yorkshire
====================

Page 224, Entry No. 671
Marriage of Joseph Abbott = Rachel Abbott
7 February 1819
Burnley St Peter
Joseph Abbott,    Of This Chapelry,    Weaver, Bachelor
Alice Riding,    Of This Chapelry,    Weaver, Spinster
Married by Banns.
Witnesses:
In the Presence of James Hey and James Hargreaves
=============================================
Thanks again,
Bram