Missing Ancestor's Birth

[Bram Taylor]

Hi
I live in Australia and I have for 40 years hit a brick wall with regards to a great great uncle Joseph Abbott who was  Baptised on the 4 of November at Wakefield All Saints Church and as seen below his parents are given as George and Sarah Abbott but after all these years I am no closer and I would like to find out where he was born and I turn 80 next year so - time is running out!!
Any help would be very much appreciated. To add to the dilemma they were married as also seen below in Burnley in Lancashire but that may be just muddying the waters?

Thanks if you can help me out

Bram Taylor
Australia

Baptism: 1786 Ref: D30
Joseph Abbott
Son of George and Sarah Abbott
Wakefield all Saints, Wakefield, West Yorkshire
Page 46
November 4th 1786
Wakefield All Saints
Wakefield, West Yorkshire
====================

Page 224, Entry No. 671
Marriage of Joseph Abbott = Rachel Abbott
7 February 1819
Burnley St Peter
Joseph Abbott,    Of This Chapelry,    Weaver, Bachelor
Alice Riding,    Of This Chapelry,    Weaver, Spinster
Married by Banns.
Witnesses:
In the Presence of James Hey and James Hargreaves
=============================================

[KGarrad]

Before the onset of Civil Registration (1837) dates of birth simply weren't considered important.
Which is why they are so difficult to find!

For most people, the date of baptism was far more important.

Maybe, but it's only a maybe, the Parish Record of the baptism will show a date of birth?
Most PR's didn't.

Did Joseph survive to the 1851 census? That's the first census to give places of birth.
The 1841 census will simply say whether born in county.

[heywood]

Hello,

How do you know that the two records you mention are for the same person?
Where do you have his relatives - Wakefield or Burnley?

There is this burial:
Wakefield All Saints
Joseph Abbott
Burial 13 Oct 1787

Son of George Abbott

Heywood

[Bram Taylor]

Hi

I obtained a copy of the actual baptism and there is no Birth date given unfortunately.  Thanks for your suggestion and will push on again, he is out there somewhere, they usually turn up misspelt or something?
Bram Taylor

[chempat]

If Joseph Abbott is your great great uncle, how is this connection formed - which births/siblings/parents are you sure about?

[Bram Taylor]

If Joseph Abbott is your great great uncle, how is this connection formed - which births/siblings/parents are you sure about?

I will show you here my definitive family as recorded and this first fellow is Joseph Abbotts son born 1829 in Heptonstall in Yorkshire. Here you can see Joseph and his wife Alice but I have just discovered an important detail that is new and that is the Death of Alice:

Alice Abbott
Died Burnley Registration District
March Quarter 1849
===============
This is also where they married but not his home base as is shown here:

IGI Christening Reference shows father as Joseph Abbott and Alice.
THOMAS ABBOTT
Christening:  31 MAR 1829   Heptonstall, Yorkshire, England

Parents:
Father:  JOSEPH ABBOTT, Occupation: Rag Gatherer
Mother:  ALICE

============================================================
1851 Census:
Windy Bank,Colne Lancashire
HO107/2254/383 p 23.

Blakey Hartley,  Head, age 65 Rag Dealer, b. Colne, Lancashire
Betty Hartley,    Wife   age 62                   b. Colne, Lancashire
Thomas Abbott, Son   age 22 Tailor,          b. Heptonstall, Yorkshire
======================================================

HO107/2254 Burnley   Colne
Folio: 383
Page: 23
=======
1861 Census:
Orchard Cottages, Barnoldswick, Yorkshire

Thomas Abbott,      Head age 32, Tailor                 b. Heptonstall, Yorkshire
Rachel Abbott ,       Wife   age 30   Cotton Weaver     b. Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Blakely Abbott         Son   age 8                               b. Barnoldswick Yorkshire
Broughton Abbott,   Son   age  5                               b. Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Matilda Abbott,        Dau   age 3                                b. Barnoldswick, Yorkshire

RG9/3184/66 p 36  Skipton   Barnoldswick

===========================
1871 Census:

Church Street Little Marsden Lancs

Thomas Abbott,         Head  age 42 Tailor b. Keplemstall(?), Yorkshire
Rachel Abbott,           Wife   age 41 Cotton Weaver b. Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Broughton Abbott,      Son   age 16 Cotton Weaver b. Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Atkinson  Abbott,        Son   age  9 b. Barnoldswick, Yorkshire
Ellen Ann Abbott,        Dau   age  4 b. Marsden, Lancashire
Thos William Abbott, Son   age    1 b. Marsden, Lancashire

RG10/4155/157 p 16  Burnley

=============================================================
Death Source:
June Quarter, 1873
Burnley District, Lancashire
8e 172

Since then I found a new marriage of a Joseph Abbott to I think a Margaret in 1849 which sounded right and Internet Explorer crashed and I lost the jolly thing and I am trying to recover it!!!! It is very unstable in Windows Ten 64 Bit!!
Anyway - I found this reference I think is relevant in 1851 it is of course the Census record.

HO107/2280/155 p 3 Thrusscross Pately Bridge

Joseph Abbott 64 b Dacre Yorkshire
Margaret Abbott 63
Thomas Abbott 23

I am grateful  for your help and hope this is not an information overload or break any rules, I am new at this caper!

Cheers,
Bram Taylor
Australia

[heywood]

Hello again,

I had seen your previous thread re the Abbotts and particularly Thomas b 1829- I think you have referred to him as Joseph in previous post.
If you are sure that your family are based around Burnley, then that is perhaps the area to concentrate on. Heptonstall is close to Burnley but Wakefield and Pateley Bridge are not.
I realise that people did travel but for the moment, it might be best to narrow the search rather than broaden it.
I think you have had this discussion previously, but it looks as though Thomas is marked as 'Un' rather than 'son' and perhaps just means unmarried - wrong column.

Do you have Thomas in 1841?

Heywood

[heywood]

This thread is about Joseph born abt 1786 and you have him married to Alice Ridley, Burnley.

Thomas born abt 1829, Heptonstall,  is the son of Joseph and Alice.

How is Joseph, your great great uncle as in your first post here? Who is your ancestor?
Sorry if you have posted this and I haven't seen it or have misunderstood.

[BumbleB]

Sorry I can't help with Thomas, but I think that the Alice Abbott who died in 1849 is not your Alice.

New GRO search facilities shows that Alice Abbott who died March quarter 1849 was 28 years old.