Hi all! Looking for John Morgan, Kent, England birth circa 1840s.

[jess5athome]

Hi, a warm welcome from me also  you'll love it here.

Frank.

PS I like the "Nut Job" bit, .................... you're not an exclusive member of that club, there are a few of us on here 

[Dundee]

Further searching had me discover John and Sarah were registered as married in the district of Waterloo, NSW in 1876 but this is where my trail starts to go cold as both are quite common a name with little else to go on.

1617/1876
MORGAN, JOHN
SHAW, SARAH
Registration District:  WATERLOO

From this marriage cert, what are their parents' names, their ages and place of birth?

....... this had me look into colonial re-marriages that took place during the era. A Sarah Shaw had become widowed with children in South Australia. To re-marry under certain circumstances in colonial australia was completely acceptable. 

We have the same marriage laws as anyone else, perhaps you are thinking of the days of transportation which is way outside your timeframe. I don't really understand what you are saying about the Sarah SHAW from SA, widowers and widows can remarry   

Can you please transcribe the information from the certificates that you have.

Debra 

[JleeM]

ty Dundee, yes. This record is the one I believe is them. BDM state no record of parents names. I would purchase the cert. if i could guarantee that information be on the cert. Maybe I call NSW BDM first. I'm not prepared to pay for the gamble just yet. I think I'll search the siblings from the birth cert of their son that I purchased a little while ago. There is 8 other siblings listed on my Great Grandfathers birth cert (Henry Thomas Edwin Morgan born 1895). I'd like to research them for clues first....
Sorry, yes I didn't elaborate the story nor provide the source that lead me to consider this possibility.  The colonial period dates from 1788 to 1901. In 1901 we became a federation governed by our own people within each individual state independently and not the british monarch.  This ended the colonial period. By the 1850's the nation had become to reject the British Monarch in favour of our own decisions. During this time, it is recorded in our history that many husbands and wifes either abused, abandoned, turned up on census sheets in another state, with another wife or had sadly died leaving family to fend for themselves. The settlers were already shacking up with others in the same predicament so the policy under state governments allowed specific cases annulled and remarried legally, sometimes this was done at the registry with little or no fuss. It was unacceptable to leave your husband who provided for you however, domestic abuse in the home became unaccepted and grounds for a wife to leave her husband for another man... This, I'm still learning about and I'm reading this externalfile:drive-0d6f0a343ddb76f399aa3dfd574811e2a85a0880/root/Hart_Susan_2009.pdf, If you google Widowhood and Remarriage in colonial Australia, Susan Hart, Bachelor of Arts (Honours), University of Western Australia you'll read all about it... it's probably more of a long shot then anything but it is interesting as there is a Sarah Shaw recorded with 3 daughters being ill treated by her husband who was the girls father. 

[JleeM]

yes, ill scan/upload the cert that I do have in a little bit:)

[JleeM]

ok, hear it is. The attachments option wouldn't let me upload the file (too big, apparently) so I've typed it out.

Henry Thomas Edwin Morgan
Registration number 31402/1895

New South Wales
Births, Deaths and Marriages registration act 1995

Birth Certificate
Date and place of birth of child - 1895, 18th November, South Woodburn
Name and whether present or not - Henry Thomas Edwin Morgan, younger born of twins, not present
Sex - male
Father's name, occupation, age and birthplace - 1. John Morgan 2. Laborer 3. 51 years 4. Kent, England
Date and place of marriage-previous issue - 1. 11th March 1876, Waterloo, Sydney, NSW 2. Living years Alice Priscilla (no age stated), Laura 18, Rebecca 17, James William 15, John 13, Charles 13, Charlotte 3, deceased 4 males, 2 females.
Mother's name and maiden surname, age and birthplace - 1. Sarah Shaw 2. 45years 3. Stockton, Newcastle, NSW
Certified by John Morgan, Father, South Woodburn
Witness- Isabella Horton
December 21st December 1895, Casino.

[Dundee]

Civil registration began in NSW in March 1856 and the bride and groom's parents' names were recorded in the church registers as well as birth places, ages and current marital staus.  Sometimes these details were not passed on to the registry but will be in the church register.  You need to see the details from registry certificate to find out which church it was.  As the marriage was in Sydney there is a good chance the records were reconciled and are complete. 

You do not need to buy certificates from the registry, transcriptions are much cheaper.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx#transcription

Two of John and Sarah's sons enlisted in WW1.  John was KIA in 1917 and David came home and also enlisted for home service in WW2 (his two records have been amalgamated):

http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/7986766/1
http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/6178585/1

Sarah was living at South Woodburn.  The Vic MORGAN referred to in the letters in John's file was not Sarah's son, he was her grandson Victor Harold, the ex nuptial child of her daughter Rebecca.

Debra 

[Dundee]

Mother's name and maiden surname, age and birthplace - 1. Sarah Shaw 2. 45years 3. Stockton, Newcastle, NSW

Baptism 1850

SHAW, Sarah
Parents William & Fanny
V18502636 37A
Hoxham, Newcastle

Death 1925

MORGAN, Sarah
Parents William & Nanny
8699/1925
Registration District: Casino

I believe the correct mother's name is Nanny.  William and Nanny SHAW arrived in 1848 on the Royal Saxon

William SHAW, 30, Farm Labourer, born Leeds, Yorkshire
Nanny SHAW, 23 born Pudsey, Yorkshire
Hannah SHAW, 2, born Leeds, Yorkshire
Martha B. SHAW, Infant, born Leeds, Yorkshire

Nanny's maiden surname was BALMFORTH and I think her son James (born 1861) was a bit confused with the name and called himself James 'Bonifoit' SHAW.

The first daughter named Martha died in 1848 and they reused the name for a daughter born in 1864.  She married John JAMES in 1884 and died in 1904 while visiting Sarah.

Another death occurred here early on Sunday morning last, when Mrs. James (sister of Mrs. Morgan, of South Woodburn), who was spending a holiday in town, died rather suddenly, after a few days' acute illness. The deceased was not quite 40 years of age, and leaves a husband and nine
children.......

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/127711134

JAMES, Martha B.
12778/1904
Parents: William & Nannie
Registration District: Casino

Debra 

[JleeM]

ok wow! My Great Grandad, Grandad and his brother all enlisted in ww2 as well.
So Rebecca had a son? Vic Harold Morgan...how very interesting! Thank you for the time you volunteered to help me with that.
It's Very greatly appreciated Debra  

I read a while ago that during the early days churches registered the marriages ..The marriage is in 1876 so the records of the marriage might be held with the state rather than the church but birth certs, deaths or marriage records are held with the churches.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/about-us/history-of-the-registry.aspx

  From 1788 to 1856 the only birth, death or marriage records kept in NSW were the registers maintained by the established churches. The Registry holds transcriptions of these early church records. Any surviving original registers are located in the NSW Archives.

Unfortunately, the extant records for this period are not comprehensive. Some ministers, missionaries and other authorised administrators kept records but not all were in a position to be this diligent. In addition many of the records contain inaccuracies and bad spelling. Distances to town centres, distrust of authority and lack of participation in formal church services contributed to the church registration system's inability to record adequately the details of all births, deaths and marriages that occurred in NSW.

So I might see what I can find with the archives and marriage registries/churches in Waterloo, NSW in the 1870's and see what else I can find out about Rebeccas son...tnks again:)

[JleeM]

WOW! My Morgan family originate from Casino and I wasn't sure where South Woodburn came into all of that but it's only 50.1kms from Casino looking at the map. There's a direct root straight from Casino to Woodburn.  Maybe Woodburn was the closest town with the nearest registry/church in those days, I'll look into what's available in Woodburn.

So it could be William and Fanny! LOL! I've got their records stashed away in the maybe pile.  I'm amazed you've found a connection to her name like that.

Love your work Debra! I've got heaps to sort out and keep me moving along the tree, cheers!