Author Topic: Who is my McDermott grandfather??  (Read 15720 times)

Offline Surrey Genie

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #63 on: Sunday 02 October 16 15:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Hallmark,

I don't understand that about nephew. He is a grandson in the census. There doesn't seem to be a problem with accepting him as Bridget's son.

SG,

When you contacted the various bodies in Carrick, was that re McDermott or Keegan? I wonder if you could get details from the baptism re sponsors and residence?

Heywood

I explained the situation and they searched under both McDermott and Keegan.      The parish at Kitoghert were amazing, they looked and looked but could find no baptism.   I cant understand how they didn't find the Thady Keegan one.

Offline Surrey Genie

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #64 on: Sunday 02 October 16 16:02 BST (UK) »
Carrick on Shannon is in the RC Parish of Kiltoghart. Yes?
RootsIreland has baptisms up to 1899, it's subscription but they have a €10 for 24 hours.
Maybe someone already has a sub...before any money is spent....
Just saying.....

I've been there ..........!!!     I got a pile of info on other bits of the family but nothing for McDermott.   

Funny thing though - for birth sponsors for Thomas's wife's side of the family - the same names come up over and over again - but no McDermotts at all.     

Thomas's obituary - long and full of names that sent cards and telegrams  - including a James Gallagher from Carrick and a William Delaney and Margaret Delaney from Boyle, but not a single McDermott outside of the immediate family.   It's the one name that never appears!

Thomas was accepted on one side of the family, but presumably, not on the other side.  Otherwise, surely a McDermott grandparent, aunt, uncle or even half brothers or sisters would have emerged somewhere.

It's a conspiracy   >:(  ::)

Offline Sinann

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #65 on: Sunday 02 October 16 16:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Hallmark,

I don't understand that about nephew. He is a grandson in the census. There doesn't seem to be a problem with accepting him as Bridget's son.

SG,

When you contacted the various bodies in Carrick, was that re McDermott or Keegan? I wonder if you could get details from the baptism re sponsors and residence?

Heywood

I explained the situation and they searched under both McDermott and Keegan.      The parish at Kitoghert were amazing, they looked and looked but could find no baptism.   I cant understand how they didn't find the Thady Keegan one.

but your Aunt wasn't looking for a Keegan.
This doesn't add up, is there anyone you could ask about what she found and where.

Online heywood

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #66 on: Sunday 02 October 16 16:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Hallmark,

I don't understand that about nephew. He is a grandson in the census. There doesn't seem to be a problem with accepting him as Bridget's son.

SG,

When you contacted the various bodies in Carrick, was that re McDermott or Keegan? I wonder if you could get details from the baptism re sponsors and residence?

Heywood

I explained the situation and they searched under both McDermott and Keegan.      The parish at Kitoghert were amazing, they looked and looked but could find no baptism.   I cant understand how they didn't find the Thady Keegan one.

But now you have a date.
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Offline hallmark

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #67 on: Sunday 02 October 16 16:55 BST (UK) »
".....The parish at Kitoghert were amazing, they looked and looked but could find no baptism.   I cant understand how they didn't find the Thady Keegan one....."

Could be that they were Baptized in Co. Cavan??
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Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #68 on: Sunday 02 October 16 17:02 BST (UK) »
I assume she had her mother's support, but why then was Thomas born in the workhouse?  I know workhouses sometimes doubled as hospitals  (in England anyway) but for childbirth??? 

There is some conceptual gap at work here. There were lots of births in workhouses - as you say, they had medical facilities. There was previously a birth register specifically for Wexford Workhouse on the web (can now only be located using wayback machine). Most of the births were illegitimate, but some were not.

SG - did you ever the address the point that in a previous thread you stated that William Gallagher and Margaret Keegan were married in 1901 in Carrick-on-Shannon. What was the basis for that statement? Perhaps you just meant to say that they were married by 1901 as shown on the census, while many of us read it as saying that they are actually married in 1901?
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Offline hallmark

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Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #70 on: Sunday 02 October 16 17:16 BST (UK) »
This is one of those areas where Irish practice deviated from English law.

In law, illegitimate children had no fathers. They were "fillius nullis", which means literally a child of nobody. Therefore civil registrations did not show alleged or reputed fathers, and only the mother's surname will appear.

However, Irish social practice, as in so many things, departed from the English legal prescription. The Irish practice - not universal, but the majority of the time in my opinion - was that an illegitimate child was indeed named for the reputed or alleged father.  For this reason, a father's name often does appear on baptismal records - but not always, and remember that a baptismal name is the Christian name, not a surname.

That is very helpful, thanks.     Am I misunderstanding this?   Is the "alleged" father named (surname) anywhere on baptism records?    If so, had the potential father no way of objecting to being named, even if he didn't think he was the father?   Bet that caused some family feuds!      Would it cause a mother to have her child baptised out of the area where she was known - where no questions might be asked?

My point is that civil registration and baptism had different rules/goals.
For civil registration, they did not want to know or record any alleged father's name, as legally there was no father. I have seen many a registration where the registrar either started to or had finished writing in the putative father's name, only to then strike it out on realizing that the birth was illegitimate.
For baptism, however, I think they wanted to know the fathers name - in my experience, the alleged father's name is there more often than not.  And no, the alleged father had no way to know or object. Also, remember, baptism is a sacrament, there was and is a heavy obligation to tell the truth.
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Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #71 on: Sunday 02 October 16 17:27 BST (UK) »
SG - did you ever specifically check for surviving workhouse records, presumably with the county council?In some cases admissions registers, and birth registers survive.
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