Author Topic: Was he really dead or legally on that date?  (Read 26642 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #162 on: Monday 17 October 16 03:34 BST (UK) »
It is good to know that Dr Nelson has replied, and has given quality background information.   

Fingers crossed that the NAA has the staff with the knowledge to provide such a reply, even if the knowledge outcome is similar. 

JM
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Offline majm

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Offline judb

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #164 on: Monday 17 October 16 05:07 BST (UK) »
While the provision of information is still lacking at least the reply is of some satisfaction and it would appear that some-one has looked at Donald's file (or lack of file!) individually at the AWM.

Do you think Brendan Nelson did the research personally??  :P  ::)

Thanks for letting us know - it all adds to our knowledge of record-keeping.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
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Offline McGroger

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #165 on: Monday 17 October 16 05:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Judith

"Do you think Brendan Nelson did the research personally??"

No real indication. But probably more likely that someone tried to do a good job for the boss and the boss would have made sure that they did, to protect his own reputation since it was done under his name. I think that's the way it usually works!

Cheers,
Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.


Offline judb

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #166 on: Monday 17 October 16 06:02 BST (UK) »
"Do you think Brendan Nelson did the research personally??

Sorry - that flippant comment of mine was made with tongue firmly in cheek.   ::)

Great to get such a personal response, though.

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #167 on: Monday 17 October 16 06:11 BST (UK) »
May I note that this thread has now been read 2941 times....

My older generation have phoned in.   Pleased with the reply from the Director, but sorry that there's still no firm answer as to whose initials are those on page 41.

One rellie says .... Dr N is likely to have re-checked every aspect before allowing the email to go out.  He is meticulous. 


JM 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
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Offline phenolphthalein

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #168 on: Thursday 20 October 16 02:18 BST (UK) »
Hi Peter
Just to let you know I did a search sometime ago on Trove with Inverell and body as terms.
Lots of deaths in the river and on the railway -- one an ex-soldier -- but all named. Also public bodies like Red Cross etc.
Regards
phenolphthalein

Offline McGroger

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #169 on: Thursday 20 October 16 05:05 BST (UK) »
Thanks very much, Phenolphthalein

Two things keep coming back to me:

Firstly, from the book “From Glenquaich to New South Wales” by Julia Kable (my second cousin):

“Coral  relates  —  ‘Aunty Nell said he died by suicide in the early 1930s at somewhere in the Riverina; she was notified, as the only identity he had was his army pay book, in which she had been entered as his next of kin.’ (Coral [Kable] was Julia’s aunt; Nell was Donald’s sister.)

And, secondly, from Donald’s army service record:

“ ‘Died 18 April 1937’ Historian 4/5/38 ”

If only we could reconcile the two things.

While family recollections suffer from imperfect understandings and imperfect memories, there must have been something in the story - concrete details like the mention of the pay book don’t usually come from nowhere (unless someone surmised it and it later became “fact”).

And the details in the service record must have come from somewhere. Perhaps, as Dr Nelson indicated in his recent email from AWM, that “somewhere” might be records now long culled.

Was there a decomposed body with his army pay book on or near it that prompted the army to record his death, but was not accepted as sufficient evidence for the coroner or the BDM to say that it was other than an “unknown” body? But you would think there would be a record and/or a newspaper report somewhere of such an occurrence.

I think the one hope left is that in addition to the service record there is still an army medical record held by the NAA - who have indicated they would reply sometime in November.

Failing that, after probably hundreds of hours now collectively spent by the wonderful people (and their friends and rellies) through this great site, we may have to conclude that Donald managed a remarkably well-executed “Harold Holt”.

I’ll post the details from NAA’s reply as soon as it comes in.

Cheers and thanks again,
Peter
Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline majm

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Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #170 on: Thursday 20 October 16 05:27 BST (UK) »
Well, Holbrook did not get the submarine until the 1990s, so I don't think Donald made his escape from the Riverina via a sub  :) but Cronulla did turn on the verandah lights earlier this year !

(Holbrook aka Germanton is in the Riverina area of NSW,  Harold Holt was a PM whose disappearance has been attributed to being swallowed by a submarine off the Victorian coast, and Jack Gibson is reputed to have said 'Waiting for Cronulla to win a premiership is like leaving the porch lamp on for Harold Holt. '

I have been searching for any possible connection with Herbert Cornelius UHR, probably born in 1903 who was in a grocery business in West Wyalong NSW with a Donald McGregor.  Their business was dissolved in April 1934, and Herbert took on all their debts and seems to have continued with the business.  http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/188521596   W Wyalong Advocate 6 April 1934.    Wondering what happened to Herbert's former business partner.... remembering that back in the Ryde district there was a Don MacGREGOR who may I speculate perhaps he was a grocer ? .....
Sands Sydney Directory 1930
MacGREGOR Don.,  Blaxland Rd, Ryde.

ADD
Nope, he was a carpenter as per NSW 1930 Electoral Roll.   ::)

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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