Was he really dead or legally on that date?

[McGroger]

Received another reply from NSW BDM. I had to look twice to make sure it was sent today. Reading between the lines I would guess the “Client Service Consultant” consulted his immediate superior and was told to stonewall.

“Thank you for your email enquiry.
 
“The Registry offers a service where up to 10 registration numbers can be checked for a fee of $44. If you wish to check more than 10 records, a further $40 fee will apply.
 
“The records must be family history records and fall within the unrestricted period.
 
“The unrestricted period for records is:
 
“Births from 1788 – 1913
“Deaths from 1788 – 1983
“Marriages from 1788- 1963
 
“Any events that occur after these dates need to be accompanied with ID from the applicant, ID from the subject on the certificate and a written letter of permission from the next of kin.
 
“The search can only be conducted for one name.
 
“Please include a letter with your application listing all records and registration numbers you would like checked. Please also provide any additional information that can assist us in identifying the correct record, for example parent’s surnames, district information etc.”

Reminds me of an encounter at a MacDonalds years ago. I asked for 12 chicken nuggets for the kids. I was told I could only have 6 or 9. I had to ask for 2 six-packs before the lights came on. In other words, if it doesn’t fit the template, it doesn’t go through.

Robots.

There are still my emails to NAA and AWM (Director’s Office) out there, with replies not guaranteed for a few weeks.

Cheers, Peter

[Rosinish]

MacDonalds years ago. I asked for 12 chicken nuggets for the kids. I was told I could only have 6 or 9. I had to ask for 2 six-packs before the lights came on. In other words, if it doesn’t fit the template, it doesn’t go through.

Cheers, Peter

Similar to a return flight to Ireland a few yrs ago.

They had a "Template" Cage/Contraption to put your case into?
If the case was bigger than the "Template" it didn't go through without an extra charge, nothing to do with weight but volume?

Annie

[majm]

....
“The records must be family history records and fall within the unrestricted period.
 
“The unrestricted period for records is:
 
“Births from 1788 – 1913
“Deaths from 1788 – 1983
“Marriages from 1788- 1963
 
“Any events that occur after these dates need to be accompanied with ID from the applicant, ID from the subject on the certificate and a written letter of permission from the next of kin.
 .......

Any events AFTER these dates  ID from applicant,  ID from subject and written letter of permission from next of kin.....   dERRRRRRRRRR.....     

Births restricted for first 100 years, deaths 30 years, and marriages 30 years.   So as today's date is 11 Oct 2016, I can see ONLINE and if I wanted to I could purchase WITHOUT such ID for births to 10 October 1916, and deaths to 10 October 1986 and marriages to 10 October 1966....... 

I can just imagine trying to get ID from subject when subject is a deceased person .....  THEY HAVE LOST THE PLOT.   They don't even understand what YEAR it is.   

I am so sorry Peter.  I need a cuppa tea BEFORE my phone starts.

PS As an aside,  I am thinking of asking for a gross of anything next time I am at the deli. I think that may really confuddle the staff there.   They know what I think of their eggs sold by the ten when I ask for a dozen eggs..... and they now know that 20 is a score.  But I haven't ever mentioned a Gross before.     

JM   

[Rosinish]

JM,

It looks to me like a "Standard" reply with no thought process on the actual enquiry?

It's obvious these things can be searched by the OP but the enquiry is that there is nothing concrete & can they help, basically.

They don't care as it's all about the incoming "Ł's".

Annie

[majm]

Yes,  I agree.  The funding issue drives much of the NSW Administrative functions. 

JM

[majm]

Do we want fancy certs? or do we want quality information....

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/news/2016/australian-classics.aspx

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/apply-for-certificates/nrl-commemorative-birth-certificates.aspx#NRLCommemorativecertificaterange 

NOTE
Commemorative birth certificates do not contain security features and organisations may not accept them as a proof of identity document. Your Standard Birth certificate (included in each package) can be used for official purposes.

JM

[McGroger]

“Gross.” Good one, JM. They’ll probably open a few cartons looking for ugly eggs.

Cheers, Peter

[Rosinish]

Hmm, Well,

I could jazz up my own or anyone else's B/M/D cert. by using Publisher & I'm sure I could do it a lot cheaper 

Annie

[McGroger]

        
Received a reply from the AWM today:


 
“Dear Mr McGregor,
 
“Thank you for your email of 7 October 2016 regarding researching Donald MacGregor.
 
“The personnel records were managed by the Base Records Office in Melbourne. This office was responsible for handling all queries relating to members of the Australian Imperial Force. These queries could relate to such things as casualties, wills, medals, pensions, mail and personal effects during the war and for some time afterwards. The note on the final page regarding Donald MacGregor’s date of death could be due to an enquiry received by the Base Records Office. The files were subject to extensive culling in the 1950s by the Department of the Army. The intention of this cull was to remove from them any material that did not provide an essential record of service. It could be that the correspondence requesting the information from the Base Records Office and its correspondence with the historian who supplied the information were culled in this process.
 
“The Series Note for the National Archives of Australia’s archival series B2455, First World War Service Records (http://www.aa.gov.au/cgi-bin/Search?Number=B2455) provides information about the creation and keeping of these records.
 
“The Memorial holds biographical and research files created for the First World War Official History. There is no file in the collection for D MacGregor. It is possible the historian referenced in the notation is Eric Wren, who wrote the 3 Battalion unit history, Randwick to Hargicourt: history of the 3rd battalion, A.I.F., published in 1935. It is likely the notation was made by a Base Records Office staff member.
 
“In addition to the Service Records, the National Archives will sometimes hold Veteran case files if the service person received a pension or sought medical treatment for war caused conditions. More information about Veteran case files can be found in the National Archives fact sheet http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/fact-sheets/fs54.aspx. If there is a case file for Donald MacGregor it may provide information regarding his death.
 
“Donald MacGregor’s death should have been registered with the relevant state authority. These records are held by Births, Deaths and Marriages. Another option would be searching newspapers for death or funeral notices. The digitised newspapers on Trove can be a useful source for this research, http://trove.nla.gov.au/.
 
“Best wishes with your research.
 
“Yours sincerely,
 
“Dr Brendan Nelson
Director'



I wrote to the NAA at the same time as I wrote to AWM but, armed with Dr Nelson’s advice, I’ve written again:

“I have received an email from the Director of the Australian War Memorial, Dr Brendan Nelson, in answer to my query to him regarding the death of my father’s uncle, Donald McGregor.

“I have examined a digital copy of his service record on which there is a handwritten note on the final page that he died on 18 April 1937.  The Director has explained that this was probably added by Base Records staff. However the origin of the advice of his death remains a mystery. There is no record in BDM records, nor in newspaper archives. The file of his divorce case has also been examined but provides no explanation as to his death. Additionally, digital records of Coroners Inquests regarding unknown persons have been searched.

 “The Director has advised that:
‘In addition to the Service Records, the National Archives will sometimes hold Veteran case files if the service person received a pension or sought medical treatment for war caused conditions.’

“Donald was discharged medically unfit so there may be a Veteran case file.

“I have done a Record Search and the only thing that comes up is his service file (41 pages) which I have already examined.

“Would you please advise me whether the result of the search means that there is no other record, or that there may be a Veterans case file, and what I need to do to find out if it contains anything that may provide a clue as to what happened to him.

“Thank you,
“Peter McGregor”

Let you know if anything else comes back. (It may be that, as Dr Nelson alludes to, the records we need may have been destroyed.)

Cheers,
Peter