Was he really dead or legally on that date?

[McGroger]

 Thanks Judith. I guess JM has answered your suggestion - although I still wonder about that aspect but don’t know where else to look.

Thanks JM. I think maybe I let them off the hook a bit by trying to be too polite. This is what I wrote:

“Intriguing Note on Relative’s Service Record: Donald M[a]cGregor No. 2065 AIF 1915-1919 Missing from 1930 onwards Note on Service File Died April 1937

“Hello. I hope I’m sending this enquiry to the correct place.
 
“I’m trying to find out how my father’s uncle died. He was discharged medically unfit in 1919. In 1930 he was arrested for wife desertion and divorce proceedings were going on in 1933 but he was still missing at that time. The only other record of him is a handwritten note on his service record: “Died 18 Apr 1937 Historian 4/5/38” with an initial that looks like it ends in a B (so probably Charles Bean). And his wife remarried the same year (1937).
 
“I can’t find any other record of his death anywhere. There is a family story handed down that he committed suicide while missing but this may be supposition.
 
“My question is, would the note on his file indicate an actual death or could it mean that he was declared legally dead so that his wife could remarry?
 
“Hoping you can help or perhaps point me in the right direction.”

But I don't think they tried too hard.

Peter

[majm]

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4028768

CEW Bean's signature on several different pages of his own AIF records.

JM

[McGroger]

It gets worse. Here is a response I just received from NSW BDM:

“Thanks for your enquiry.
 
“Have you tried looking on our birth and death index's on our website?
 
“You can look through them and if you find a relevant record, you can purchase it there and then.
 
“Maybe you should start there.”


And my response to their response:


“Thanks for your response.

“Adam, I’m being assisted by a team of experienced researchers through an online genealogical website.

“I wrote to the Australian War Memorial Research Centre and then you because we have been unable to find any clues in the usual places. We have exhausted the resources in those usual places: NSW BDM indexes, Trove, Ancestry.com  (including NSW coroners inquest registers for the period) and all the rest. The full file of his divorce proceedings has been photographed and examined for any clues. Nothing we have found, apart from the army service record, gives any indication of what happened to him after 1930.

“But there must have been some reason for the army historian to note Donald’s file that he died on a certain date.

“Perhaps you have a colleague with experience in a situation like this who could offer some help.

“Cheers, Peter”

Cheers, Peter

[majm]

I did say weasel words and gobbledygook.   

I am so very sorry, not just for Peter, but for my own living ancestors (edit to add 'and who frequently read threads that I contribute to, and then phone me and comment') who spent careers in the NSW Registrar General's Office (Land and BDM) and in the Mitchell Library and State Library (when NSW Archives Office was part of their functioning) and then as Archivists at NSWAO at Kingswood, and seconded to NLA Canberra, and family members, deceased but well remembered  who sought to go 'to the front' but were in Reserve occupations, or were otherwise unable .... medically unfit .... so quit NSW BDM to go to AIF Base Records and then in their old age were always at the ready to share their acquired knowledge of protocols/practices/ back in the pre-puter era. 

I am very disappointed to read that response.  I have had much better responses from them, but several years ago now.   It seems a part of the 'Australian Ethos' has gone missing.   I do not expect you will receive a positive email from NSW BDM.   Weasel words and gobbledygook seems to be their current offerings. 

I will pull thinking cap down harder.   

JM

Collective thinking cap is being brain-stormed by my living older relatives.  They promise TO TRY to overcome the Catch - 22.   I will report back after they have indulged in their own ways in 'happy hour'  .... STD calls on 'proper phones'  ....  there will be some rude words, which means I am not allowed to be privy, despite being (in my view) 'old enough' (born 194X) and a 'married woman' (since the 1970s !)

[McGroger]

Thanks JM. Appreciate your help and advice very much.
Peter

[McGroger]

Another response from NSW BDM:

“Does he have a middle name?”

(No header/greeting/or signing off this time - you can almost see the gritted teeth. Perhaps like many work places today they don’t have the staff/time to be able to engage in anything deep and meaningful. Retirement is great!)

My reply:

“His birth was registered as simply Donald McGregor (1894) in Hurstville. He later spelt his name MacGregor. (I think that when he went to school the spelling was 'corrected' with the addition of the 'a'). In all records we have found (birth, reform school, marriage - in Scotland during the war - army record, Police Gazette, divorce papers) there is no mention of a middle name.

“In some online trees a Donald 'Alexander' MacGregor (in others even an 'Alexander Donald' MacGregor) is put in his place but this is incorrect. Both of these 'wrong' ones have WWI service records but they are completely unrelated to 'our' Donald. His grandfather's name was Alexander and this may be the reason some immature research picked up an entirely different Donald. There appears to no evidence that Donald himself ever used that name. In case you need them, his parents' names are given in the heading of my first email.

“So, no, as far as we can see, he neither had nor used any middle name.

“Thank you for having another look at this.

“Cheers, Peter.”

Cheers, Peter

[sparrett]

Hi Peter.
My comment here is of no assistance to you, but...

I do wonder if either the AWM or NSW bmd would be interested to note that this thread was first posted on 22nd September and it is now 7th October and about 2,350 people have read it.

That could possibly be seen as a wide exposure to unfavourable publicity in regard to their services 

Sue

[majm]

outcome from the Happy hour discussions   

1.  unlikely that anyone at the NSW BDM call centre (who also handle initial email enquiries) will have any knowledge about how the system worked well back in the 1990s, much less back in the era before the internet.  So request they pass your enquiry to Senior Executive Team.

2.  try contacting NAA and ask them for advice as to which experienced WWI expert to contact re who would have had the authority in 1938 to make such an entry on the file, and also, (more importantly) what supporting documentation would have been required (there's none on the file) and advise them of the weasel word emails from both NSW BDM and the AWM  (quote the file and the page no. 41 of 41 with the entry on it, and if poss attach a live link for them too ... spoon feed, give them no option to fail to give quality response)

3. Contact the AWM director by email and ask the same type of questions.   

4. You need to be specific and don't give them any leeway or opt out options.

And, I have just read Sue's post YES,  unfavourable publicity.... 

JM

[McGroger]

Thanks again, Sue and JM,

I’ve written to NSW BDM again, the AWM Director, and to NAA, trying to strike a good balance of polite assertiveness - I think I’m getting out of my depth!

NAA automated a response: “We expect to respond by: 18/11/2016 04:00 PM”

The other two would be long gone to the pub.

JM, whether we get a good result or not, my debt to you (and your Happy Hour crew) is growing - hope they’re not big drinkers!

I might be missing in action for a day or so. Daughter-in-law’s 30th and other son and daughter-in-law’s wedding anniversary tomorrow in Armidale.

See you next week to report of any other responses. Have a good weekend.

Cheers, Peter