Author Topic: Was he really dead or legally on that date?  (Read 26728 times)

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #99 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 01:21 BST (UK) »
The "Divorce" papers originally delivered to Donald's father's last known address (a suburb of Sydney) but returned 'unclaimed' to Effie's solicitor.  (so Donald's father was believed to be alive and a Sydney resident in 1934, and Effie had NO current address for Donald at that time).

ADD
There's mention much earlier in the thread about one or two listings in NSW Police Gazette re wife desertion, arrest up around Wauchope .... 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Online sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,914
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #100 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 01:43 BST (UK) »
So, last sighted in person July 1930 at Inverell, when arrested and appeared in court and ordered to make monthly payments for support of his wife..
Paid once and not heard of again.

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #101 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 01:57 BST (UK) »
That's it Sue .... nothing since an arrest in 1930, one payment, and then ziltch until the AIF file has a DD for April 1937, entered on the file in 1938.     

The AWM are usually very thorough in their replies, particularly for the files for WWI AIF men and women.   

ADD

Donald was known as "Don" to family members.... perhaps that may help with any database searchings.

I have not looked for Gregory MacDonald, but I wonder if he may have reversed his names?  If so, that would become a needle in a haystack....

JM   
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,241
  • PASSED & PAST
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #102 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 02:22 BST (UK) »
Great thought JM but would be a hard task not only finding him but proving it was him.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #103 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 02:52 BST (UK) »
I think the judge also said that he was confident that Donald was a resident of NSW.  (was he privy to some other info or was there anything in there to inspire that confidence?)
Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #104 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 03:29 BST (UK) »
The test for the Judge to hear the case would be that he was satisfied that the petitioner was NSW resident and that the petitioner (or her legal representatives) had sought to locate the respondent.   The respondent (Donald McGregor) did not need to be resident in NSW, but it is obvious from correspondence lodged with the Supreme Court and retained in the file, that Effie knew how to contact Donald's father and siblings who were NSW residents, and that there was not any hostility in their friendships.     

Effie's statement shows her lack of financial means.  The maximum the solicitor was permitted to charge was agreed to as £7.  I have seen other NSW divorce files in that era where the Court registrar influenced these low fees.    I note that Effie was not drawing a pension from the AIF when she sought a divorce.
     

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline McGroger

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,910
  • Convicts, Commoners and Outlaws
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #105 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 06:38 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much, Ros. You’re a Legend!

Just to briefly pull together some relevant facts from the court case:

According to Effie, Donald deserted her in March 1930. She received letters from him that showed he was in Inverell. The last letter was in about May, she said.

She believed he was brought before the Children’s Court in Inverell with maintenance of 1 pound 10 shillings per week to be paid. She received one payment. [But see response to Sparrett below.]

The last date in the court case is 5 March 1935 when the Decree Nisi was dated and stamped requesting confirmation from the court. [Presumably that is the date when the decree becomes absolute?]

Looking back at his army record, when he first joined in 1915, in response to the question regarding previous service it says: “Australian Rifles 2 years resigned left for Inverell”.

So he had had some sort previous relationship with the Inverell area.

The date recorded on his service file, “Died 18 April 1937” looks suspiciously like he was declared dead as of that date, it being almost exactly 7 years since he first deserted Effie.

Given his background - losing his mother early, getting run over by a wagon, being sent to reform school, army health history, probably been gassed, possible inability to have children, job problems (mentioned in one letter in the court case) - the probability of him being one of those many unidentified bodies mentioned in an earlier post by JM is high.

It’s a real mystery, all right. A couple of curious, (perhaps) related things: JM earlier mentioned an unidentified body in NSW BDM that was given an age (37) in 1932 - which could have been Donald’s age (born 1894) - but the district was Sydney. And I mentioned a family story handed down, a small part of which being that he was 36 when he died (but this could have just meant he was that age when he disappeared),

Will be interesting to see what the Australian War Memorial sends back. (They sent a form letter saying their “target response date” was 11 October.)

A couple of responses to individual posts:

Sue, curiously, the Police Gazette cites Wauchope as the place he was arrested. It may have been Effie’s memory or perhaps he was taken to Inverell for trial, although that’s quite a long way.

JM, yes Don’s father was still alive. He lived at the same address until about 1946 when his property was resumed for a school; then lived with a son in Mortdale until the son died (1947); then with a son in Grafton until he (the father) died (1949).

And, if anyone was wondering, no, there is definitely no connection with the fact I live in Inverell - I was first transferred here by a bank. (Unless they were in on this mystery too!)

Thanks again to everyone for your continuing interest and help in this story.

Cheers, Peter


Convicts: COSIER (1791); LEADBEATER (1791); SINGLETON (& PARKINSON) (1792); STROUD (1793); BARNES (aka SYDNEY) (1800); DAVIS (1804); CLARK (1806); TYLER (1810); COWEN (1818); ADAMS[ON] (1821); SMITH (1827); WHYBURN (1827); HARBORNE (1828).
Commoners: DOUGAN (1844); FORD (1849); JOHNSTON (1850); BEATTIE (& LONG) (1856); BRICKLEY (1883).
Outlaws: MCGREGOR (1883) & ass. clans, Glasgow, Glenquaich, Glenalmond and Glengyle.

Offline rosball

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,263
  • John Scott Henderson 1853 Scotland -1919 Vic
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #106 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 06:44 BST (UK) »
Pleasure to help Peter - wish there had been more info.

Here is a little description of him (not sure if posted before)

Let's not tolerate bullying !
Herrington Kent  Henderson Scotland Kerr Scotland Reston Scotland  Smith Scotland  Kellow Cornwall  Doney Cornwall  Wadeson Lancashire  Whiteley Yorkshire Gregan Ireland

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: Was he really dead or legally on that date?
« Reply #107 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 07:38 BST (UK) »

Sands Sydney Directory 1930
MacGREGOR Don.,  Blaxland Rd, Ryde.

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.