George Ritson 1890-1954

[John Ritson]

I have just received my grandfathers first world war things. This includes 3 medals. 1914 star, British war medal and the Victory medal. From documents I also have I know he joined the Lancashire Fusiliers. He enlisted on 6th march 1908 and passed the mounted Infantry after 4 months training on the 1st of october 1912. He went overseas 23rd August 1914. I have include a photograph on his bike. Can anyone I.D. it? I have most of his 3rd class education certificate and the armband he is wearing signifies he was a corporal. He documentation says he was in the Royal Engineers 4th division signal corps. He served until 5th of March 1920. Any tips to find out where he was. I know he had the 4 blue chevrons and one red so he served right through the war. My picture is cropped from the original to fit this formats file

[km1971]

Here is the composition of 4th Division, which includes 4th Div Signals Company - http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/4th-division/

Do you have his record? In which case it will tell you when he transferred to the Royal Engineers. You can look for 4th Div's war diary on the National Archives website. His signal company's war diary may also be available.

I would also ask a moderator to put a link on the photographic section. There are members who can id the motorcycle..

Ken

[John Ritson]

Thanks for the reply. I have army form z.21 saying that he was being transferred to the reserve on the 5th of April 1919 and form b 2067 , a character certificate with a discharge date of 5 th of  March 1920. Also a discharge certificate b 2079 saying that he served 11 years and 1 month with the colors and11 months in the reserves. All the certificates were signed by a RE officer.

[jim1]

The bike is a 1914 550cc Triumph.
Your man must have been in 2 Batt. LF as they were part of the 4th. Div. & went overseas with them on the 23rd. (see other thread).
I think he was already in the Signals prior to embarkation as this looks like a home photo possibly taken on the annual camp 1914.
The 4th. Div. RE only mentions bridge blowing, pontoon building & entrenching so won't be any help.
As I mentioned in the other thread the Signals were attached to 10 & 11 Bde. 4th. Div.

[John Ritson]

Thanks Jim. As he was in the Army from 1908 and trained as a mounted infantry man in 1912  it is probable that he progressed to the motor bike training. His medal card dated 22nd of August 1914 gives a Lancashire Fusiliers number 1400 and a RE number 359642 which means he was in the RE when he sailed to France . Thanks for the bike info. If you want to see the full size photo I can email it to you.

[jim1]

Just re-reading your 1st. post. The blue & white armband indicates a signaller not a Cpl.

[John Ritson]

Hi! Jim, My grandada passed his Third Class certificate and I have read that it was almost automatic to be promoted to Corporal for most dispatch riders. Here is a quote from the internet.  "On the recommendation of the Council of Military Education three levels or standards were set out and were linked with promotion in the ranks. The third-class certificate specified the standard for promotion to the rank of corporal the candidate was to read aloud and to write from dictation passages from an easy narrative, and to work examples in the four compound rules of arithmetic and the reduction of money" Does the rank of Sapper differ from Corporal?

[jim1]

Sapper is another name for a Pte.
What you said was this.

armband he is wearing signifies he was a corporal

[Gwil]

Thanks Jim. As he was in the Army from 1908 and trained as a mounted infantry man in 1912  it is probable that he progressed to the motor bike training. His medal card dated 22nd of August 1914 gives a Lancashire Fusiliers number 1400 and a RE number 359642 which means he was in the RE when he sailed to France . Thanks for the bike info. If you want to see the full size photo I can email it to you.

He went to France 22nd August 1914 as a Lancashire Fusilier man. His 1914 Star was issued by Lancashire Fusiliers.

His RE number is quite high. Looking for surviving records of numbers around it will give an idea when he transferred to RE from Lancashire Fusiliers.

eg
Richard Edward Martin was transferred in to RE as 359641 on 22 3 1918

William Frank Hendley was tranferred in to RE as 359649 on 19 3 1918

John William West was transferred to RE as 359647 on 23 3 1918

(these men were from diverse units, not Lanc Fus)

On the face of it then his service from Aug 1914 to March 1918 has been with Lancashire Fusiliers and that photo is dated after March 1918.