Clara Jane Shipley b.c.1880 - in Dudley?

[Jomot]

Its a difficult one, as where the occupation Glass Blower came from I really don't know .   It might have been the occupation of her biological father, whose identity we may never know.

However, if this is your Clara then her sister Flora shown in 1891 may also have been born before Sarah & William married.   She is still with Sarah in later census lodging with a coal miner named William Pugh but is referred to as Florence.

There is no birth for a Flora/Florence  Roe/Row/Rowe after the 1887 marriage, but there is one for Bertha Florence Shipley Dec quarter 1886 in West Bromwich.   Florence Roe married Bertram Sydney Lissaman in 1907, and his WW1 records show they also moved to Birmingham.

It looks as though Mary Roe, the youngest sister, died in 1891 aged 0.

One other thought I had about Clara is that on census records George Hawker's father is shown as a builder or bricklayer, and Clara Shipley / Roe & her family were involved in brick making, so possibly a connection there?

[Sparkym5]

Definitely the 1940 marriage

Ellen McKeown aged 72 - born 5.9.1918 Death reg March 1991 Birmingham Volume   32 Page 1053

Three children born between 1942-1959 - all Birmingham.  Names cannot be given as they are probably all still living

100% confirm 1940  - Ellens my nan! Only one of her three children still alive, my mum Mireen born 1946. Hugh and Angela have sadly passed. 7 Grandchildren, 5 Great Grandchildren.

[Jomot]

Hi Sparkym & welcome to Rootschat. 

Seems its a small world!

pollux83 is offline at the moment but I'm sure she'll be delighted to hear from you - especially if you can shed some light on Ellen's mother 

[avm228]

Working on the theory that Clara may have been illegitimate I looked for a marriage in Dudley of a female with the surname Shipley and came up with this:

Apr-Jun 1887, Dudley, 6c / 94 - Sarah Shipley & Joseph Hill or William Roe

1891 Census - RG12/2279/17/27

George Shipley 66 Head b (?) Staffordshire, Ag Farm Labourer   
Hannah Shipley 64  Wife  b Yoxall, Staffordshire   
George Shipley 15 Son b Oldbury, Farm Labourer   
Sarah Row 37 Daughter Widow  b West Bromwich, Brick Yard Labourer   
Clara Row 5 Grand Daughter  b Oldbury
Flora Row 3 Grand Daughter b Oldbury,
Mary Row 10M  Grand Daughter b Rowley Regis

What do you think? 

There is a birth for a Clara Jane Rowe in the Dec Q 1885 in Burton on Trent but I cant find her on the census - unless this is her above 

William Roe, Labourer, of Newbury Lane, Oldbury, Worcs, died 31 Jan 1890 leaving an estate of £72.  Administration was to his widow, Sarah Roe of Tividale, Rowley Regis, Staffordshire.

Added: In 1901 Clara Ro(w)e is still living in Rowley Regis (Dudley RD) in the home of George P Shipley aged 26.  Clara is listed as his sister in law, aged 18 and a brick maker.

Also added: Just checking my registration districts, Oldbury - Clara Ro(w)e's PoB - came under West Bromwich, which ties in with the birth registration for Clara Jane Shipley.

WestmidlandsBMD shows that the birth of Clara Jane Shipley was registered in Oldbury subdistrict, which looks promising.

[Sparkym5]

Hi Sparkym & welcome to Rootschat. 

Seems its a small world!

pollux83 is offline at the moment but I'm sure she'll be delighted to hear from you - especially if you can shed some light on Ellen's mother 

Thanks, I've already briefed my mum and asked her to dig out Nans birth certificate see what comes up on there. As we know little about the Hawkers this is really exciting discovery for us.

I am really interested to see if we have any military connections - Nanused to say that we were somehow linked to Hawker aircraft ltd that designed the Battle of Britain planes but I've never followed it up.

[pollux83]

Hi Sparkym5!
I imagine you are the person I've been discussing this with on another site. The Hawkers (at least, the branch of the Hawker clan that you are related to) were a lively bunch in Victorian times, having numerous dealings with the law. There is a hilarious account in a newspaper article from 1871 (I think) of a street brawl that is right out of Keystone Cops. Not just the men but some of the wives were involved.
I've found no evidence of a connection with the Hawker aircraft company.
Looking forward to more discoveries!
Pollux83 (Paul) (he, not she, Jomot!)

[Sparkym5]

Haha too much to take in on a Friday Paul - not only do I discover that I am part Dingle (Brummie term for Black Country folk) but I'm also related to a branch of the Peaky Blinders

Will be over at my parents this weekend I'll raid their archives see if there are any documents or photos of Clara and George.

[Jomot]

Pollux83 (Paul) (he, not she, Jomot!)

Oops - my apologies !

[pollux83]

Well, it looks like Jomot was right on the ball! I now have Clara's birth certificate, which says that she was born on 6 Sept 1884 in Newbury Lane, Oldbury, to Sarah Shipley, a labourer in a brickyard. No father given.

As Jomot mentioned, in the 1901 census Clara is a brick maker. And in the 1939 Register, her husband George Hawker appears as a General Labourer - Brickyard. It all seems to hang together.

Regarding their marriage certificate in 1906, where Clara's father is given as William Shipley, glass blower, deceased, I think the suggestion that he was in fact William Ro(w)e is a sound one. I have found a William Roe in the 1881 census living in Harborne. Both he and his brother were born in Smethwick and worked in a glass works. I'm guessing that was the Chance Brothers works in Smethwick.

Without getting Sarah and William's marriage certificate and checking his father's name and other details I can't be sure this is the right William, but the rest of the story is looking good now.