ScotlandsPeople (New website now live).

[smudwhisk]

But none of the official government web sites anywhere in the world offers a subscription option for viewing original certificates as far as I know - and if I am wrong I'll be delighted to know which they are.

If SP would just restore the search options their old site had, that would be a great first step. Using the old search it was usually possible to home in on most certificates without wasting too many credits unless you are researching a very common surname.

As Sugarbakers says, a subscription option for Parish Registers and Census would certainly be welcome by many.  I have one Scottish line who had migrated to England by the 1790s so the majority of my research in Scotland dates from before that time, apart from trying with difficulty to follow those who remained there forward.  While I agree that SP is far cheaper for certificates, with the ever increasing number of England and Welsh parish registers appearing on subscription sites and the fact the Census have been available on subscription for years, SP is falling behind on this insisting still on credit only purchases.  I accept that SP is different as all records are hosted on a government website, but that does not mean that they couldn't have both credits and subscriptions available for different types of records.  I also hope that they change their mind in the not too distant future for these.  With a bit of luck we may even see cheaper access to GRO certificates through uncertified copies in the future for England & Wales which would definitely be an improvement on the current situation.

[Rosinish]

I would just like to add that there are 2 sides to the coin.

There are many genuine, enthusiastic root hunters who can't afford subs to commercial sites to even look at the indexes i.e. I don't have too much of a gripe with SP's set-up as it is accessible to everyone at minimal cost.

I do however have a gripe with their new format but early doors so will have to wait & see whether they take on board our moans/groans/gripes.

I still say they should have had researchers (chosen from their site users) which I don't believe they did as I have yet to see anyone over the moon with the new format.

Too many people think they can do their family tree from indexes alone but in my experience they are not doing it properly.

Annie

[sugarbakers]

There are many genuine, enthusiastic root hunters who can't afford subs to commercial sites to even look at the indexes i.e. I don't have too much of a gripe with SP's set-up as it is accessible to everyone at minimal cost.

But, Annie, they are not addressing the 'no name, no search' problem.

There's no need for Ancestry style subs. Look at SEAX who offer 24hrs for £10, 7 days for £20, 30 days for £30, with no auto-renewal.

[Rosinish]

SB,

I'm unsure what you mean by "no name" search, sorry?

Do you mean no forename, no surname or blank?

Annie

[Rosinish]

SB,

I can see you have missed my point on SP being affordable for all.

There's no need for Ancestry style subs. Look at SEAX who offer 24hrs for £10, 7 days for £20, 30 days for £30, with no auto-renewal.

"30 days for £30"

Multiply that by 12 for people who can't afford a sub upfront = £360 per year, NO THANKS!

Annie

ADDED, with no cert. to show for your £'s, unlike SP where you can download the cert. unless of course it's outwith the privacy yrs.

[sugarbakers]

I'm unsure what you mean by "no name" search, sorry?

I can see you have missed my point on SP being affordable for all.
"30 days for £30"
Multiply that by 12 for people who can't afford a sub upfront = £360 per year, NO THANKS!

ADDED, with no cert. to show for your £'s, unlike SP where you can download the cert.

Annie

Neither of my points is anything to do with certificates. I have no need for certificates. There is considerable research done by many that does not require certificates - church registers and censuses being the main aspects. (SP does produce wills at a different cost).

'No name, no search' ...

Mr A needs to look at all the folks who lived in his street in 1911.

Mrs B can't find an ancestor 1780-1800 in the indexes, so wishes to browse the church registers for the five local parishes looking for mis-spellings.

Miss C is collecting the names of all the distillery workers in the XX valley 1841-1861 - three censuses to be searched, occupations not indexed.

Mr D wishes to find all the sugar workers in Greenock by browsing the church registers.

Mrs E needs to know who lived at 14 School Lane, XX, in 1891 for research into a building.

... these are all 'no name' searches that can only be accomplished by browsing the original records held solely by SP, and that can only be done economically with a subscription, but not necessarily an annual subscription.

Subscriptions ...

Browsing the records searching for information may take a few hours or many months, but think about how many pages can be turned and studied in an hour. The time taken for the previous examples will vary for all sorts of reasons, so to have varying lenghths of subscriptions works well.
Mr A could complete his research in 4 hours, get the details of all 40 families at a cost of £10 (at SEAX prices). So for the cost of a single English certificate he has all those names at 25p per family - I call that good value. If that is to be the extent of Mr A's research on the site he need never return or pay anything more.
The use of short-term subscriptions can be very cost-effective.

This is really all about the nature of one's research rather than obtaining certificates - something SP must address.

[Forfarian]

'No name, no search' ...

Mr A needs to look at all the folks who lived in his street in 1911.

Valuation rolls, available in the National Library of Scotland and many local libraries, will provide names of heads of household. You could then use one of those to get to the 1911 census page for the street, and page forward or back from there.

Mrs B can't find an ancestor 1780-1800 in the indexes, so wishes to browse the church registers for the five local parishes looking for mis-spellings.

Microfilm of the relevant parish register, widely available free of charge in local libraries and family history societies, and available to rent for a few pounds or dollars at LDS Church Family History Centres anywhere in the world.

Miss C is collecting the names of all the distillery workers in the XX valley 1841-1861 - three censuses to be searched, occupations not indexed.

Microfilm of those three censuses, available as for registers above.

Mr D wishes to find all the sugar workers in Greenock by browsing the church registers.

As for Mrs B above.

Mrs E needs to know who lived at 14 School Lane, XX, in 1891 for research into a building.

Valuation rolls as for Mr A above.

... these are all 'no name' searches that can only be accomplished by browsing the original records held solely by SP, and that can only be done economically with a subscription, but not necessarily an annual subscription.

With the exception of the second part of Mr A's quest, all of these searches can be accomplished entirely free of charge in local libraries or family history centres.

[sugarbakers]

Thank you, Forfarian, for finding solutions to my random examples of 'no name' searches ... very useful information where those various holdings are available/convenient. If not, we are back to SP recognising that "there has also been a difference in the reasons why customers use the site" but not yet acknowledging it with alternative payment options.

[smudwhisk]

Mrs B can't find an ancestor 1780-1800 in the indexes, so wishes to browse the church registers for the five local parishes looking for mis-spellings.

Microfilm of the relevant parish register, widely available free of charge in local libraries and family history societies, and available to rent for a few pounds or dollars at LDS Church Family History Centres anywhere in the world.

You won't find microfilm copies of Scottish registers in libraries outside of Scotland itself and I doubt many have copies of registers that aren't from their local area.  LDS FHC's charge £7.50 per film for 2 months now in the UK.  Unless you are lucky and all required parishes appear on the same film, it is more expensive than using SP's credits.  So again we are back to the fact that SP could quite easily provide a subscription option of some sort (not necessarily only per year) for items such as Parish Registers and Census and they would probably find they would make just as much money as they do with credit based payments since people are more likely to subscribe than risk spending a lot of money on incorrect parish register entries.  While some may expect them to include Certificates in a subscription option, I suspect most would be quite happy if it included just church registers and Census.