Joseph Hulbert (c. 1793-1878) Huguenot or not?

[smudwhisk]

Hi, Just for info but?
1. Joseph Hulbert married Elizabeth Nash 6.12.1778 st james westminster

One of the witnesses to this marriage was a William Hulbert.  It looks possible that Joseph may have remarried in 1804 at Stepney St Dunstan to Mary Bell, he was a widower, she a spinster.  The signature looks very similar to the 1778 marriage and would place Joseph in the same parish as Joseph junior who married there in 1818.

Edit - if they are the correct couple they must have had other children elsewhere between 1778 and Joseph's baptism in 1793 at Shoreditch St Leonard.

[smudwhisk]

There is a John Hulbert son of Joseph and Elizabeth baptised 26 Sept 1779 at St George Hanover Square.  No other details on the entry.

There do appear to be a number of Hulbert entries in the parish registers for various Westminster parishes, albeit there doesn't appear to be a baptism for the earlier Joseph.  They are viewable on Findmypast.  There is a John Hulbert marrying in St Ann Soho in 1767, although there appear to be two John Hulbert's in the area as there are children baptised in St Clement Danes, St George Hanover Square and St James Piccadilly after that date and they overlap so can't be the same couple.  None of the baptisms sadly have a mother's name included to confirm which couple.

[smudwhisk]

There's a George Hulbert bap. 1794 and Elizabeth 1797 both baptised St.Leonards, Shoreditch

There is a George Hulbert marrying Mary Patterson at Christ Church Spitalfields on 11 Dec 1814.  No obvious Hulbert connection with the witnesses but there is a George and Mary residing in Bethnal Green on 1841 in Bethnal Green and 1851 and 1861 in Shoreditch, listed as born Shoreditch c1794.

[Ladyhawk]

Hi, Just for info but?
1. Joseph Hulbert married Elizabeth Nash 6.12.1778 st james westminster

2.William Hulbert son of Joseph Hubert and Annie BUTFRY died 1.1.1899 aged 81 Salt Lake City s l Utah- occ trunk maker. He was a widower.

Sorry not helping with Huguenot name or Joseph's parents

for info...... just in case you don't have this

Details for 1899 death on familysearch http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i7h/
also some deaths of William Hulbert & his second wife Jane Horsnell's children in Salt Lake

Sometimes naming patterns of the children may give a clue to parents/grandparents/siblings names

1841- 1871c Joseph HULBERT married to Ann living Wilmott Street Bethnal Green
born between c1792-1796  (from ages given on censuses)
1841c  his occ. Silk Weaver on 1871c (widowed) his occupation listed as Undertaker

Joseph & Ann's children’s names  from 1841 – 1851 census appear to be
Harriet, Caroline, Emma, Christiana, Clara, Thomas, Hester

Their son William occ. S. Weaver on the same 1841 census in Wilmott St
age 20 listed with Thomas & James Boys & Caroline Hulbert age 20
Looks as if  William (b1818), married a Caroline Harriet Menote, 29 March 1841 St Matthew Bethnal

In 1851c living Squirries Street, St Matthew Bethnal Green,
William Hulbert occ Silk Weaver, their children named William, Caroline, Joseph, Thomas, Clara

In 1861 William is living in Hackney with new wife Jane (nee Horsnell) plus additional children
Henry, Alice & Arthur

Familysearch has these children born to Joseph Hulbert & Ann all ch. St Matthew’s Bethnal Green http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i7j/

Ann 1814, William 1817, Eliza 1819,  Harriet Eleanor 1821, Caroline 1823,
Emma 1825, Louisa 1827, Christiana 1829, Clara 1831, Thomas George 1833,
Hester 1833

London, Docklands & East End Bpt 1858 – 1933
Ann b 12 Oct bpt 6 Nov 1814 address Wilmott Street
William b 31 Jan 1817 bp 23 Feb address Pit St
Eliza b 30 May 1819 bp 20 Jun address Pit St
Parents Joseph (Weaver) & Ann

[xxxxx78678]

Thank you everyone so much for your help!

The Admission Registers for the French Protestant Hospital (transcript published by the Huguenot Society) have entries for Eliza Hudswell nee Hulbert and Christiana Jackson nee Hulbert.  The details suggest both were admitted because of their mother being a descendant of the Butfoy refugee family.  There is no mention of their father also being descended from Huguenot or Walloon refugees, normally details would be included if both parent's had eligibility.

While many Huguenots and Walloons were silk weavers, it was also a profession practiced by other non-French protestant families.  I have a number that weren't, as well as some that have proven to be, so while it is a clue, it doesn't mean that will definitely be the case.

Thank you smudwhisk this is quite interesting. Are they the only entries for Hulbert? Or other spelling variations?

Hi, Just for info but?
1. Joseph Hulbert married Elizabeth Nash 6.12.1778 st james westminster

One of the witnesses to this marriage was a William Hulbert.  It looks possible that Joseph may have remarried in 1804 at Stepney St Dunstan to Mary Bell, he was a widower, she a spinster.  The signature looks very similar to the 1778 marriage and would place Joseph in the same parish as Joseph junior who married there in 1818.

Edit - if they are the correct couple they must have had other children elsewhere between 1778 and Joseph's baptism in 1793 at Shoreditch St Leonard.

Hmm.. William could be a brother? Or perhaps even Joseph's father? If this marriage is the right one, I found an Elizabeth Nash born Sep 19, 1760; christened Oct 5 1760, Saint Leonards, Shoreditch to Daniel Nash and Eleanor. That would make her 18 at the time of marriage. NASH is definitely not Huguenot!

[xxxxx78678]

NASH is definitely not Huguenot!

Actually I could very well be wrong about this. I just found an entry for NASH (1700s LND ENG) on a Huguenot surnames index: https://www.aftc.com.au/Huguenot/Hug.html that doesn't actually prove anything at all, but it might be a clue. Smudwhisk, could you please do a search for NASH on the Hospital register? Thanks in advance.

[Lily M]

There were two possible Elizabeth Nashs baptised in Datchet.

1757 parents William and Martha and 1759 parents William and Ann

There were a lot of Huguenots in Buckinghamshire because it was a lace-making area.

[smudwhisk]

Thank you smudwhisk this is quite interesting. Are they the only entries for Hulbert? Or other spelling variations?

No those were the other two.

There are no Nash entries.

There were two possible Elizabeth Nashs baptised in Datchet.

1757 parents William and Martha and 1759 parents William and Ann

There were a lot of Huguenots in Buckinghamshire because it was a lace-making area.

There are a lot of Hulberts appearing in records from the 1500s in various areas.  While its not impossible that the Holborn Lying-in Hospital Hulbert baptism was the same family (there does appear to be a gap in children's baptisms), evidence would need to be found to confirm that the Joseph (who with wife Elizabeth baptised children later in Shoreditch) was indeed a baker by profession.  I suspect if a search was done for the surname in Buckinghamshire, there would be other entries.  Buckinghamshire Family History Society do provide a surname search facility of their parish register transcripts which would help in either eliminating that possibility or be a step towards confirming.  However the Datchet Joseph Hulbert is listed as being a Baker and not a Silk Weaver.

As for Buckinghamshire's lace making industry, there appears to be a lot of debate about whether it was a result of Huguenot emigrees or had already started.

NASH is definitely not Huguenot!

Actually I could very well be wrong about this. I just found an entry for NASH (1700s LND ENG) on a Huguenot surnames index: https://www.aftc.com.au/Huguenot/Hug.html that doesn't actually prove anything at all, but it might be a clue. Smudwhisk, could you please do a search for NASH on the Hospital register? Thanks in advance.

Just because a surname appears on a list of Huguenot surnames does not mean everyone with that surname is of Huguenot descent.  For example, the surname Lucas or Lukas appears quite a lot in the registers of the Canterbury Walloon church, but it also appears in parish registers from the 1500s.  Yes some may be of Huguenot stock but many are unlikely to be.

A French sounding surname could simply mean that a family of that name or a variant emigrated to England from the medieval period onwards and the surname did not become completely anglicised.

One of the major problems with proving a Huguenot / Walloon ancestor relates to whether they appear in the records of any of the Huguenot or Walloon churches in the UK.  From memory the only "new member" (Tresmoignanges) records that survive are for the large Threadneedle Street French church in London.  However, not all those who baptised children in even that church appear in the records.  It can be very difficult to prove an ancestor was of Huguenot descent, something I know quite well from experience.

[Lily M]

I agree with you smudwhisk   I've not been comfortable with the 1778 marriage.  It seems more likely that their children named Joseph and Elizabeth would have been among their earlier children.