1841 census.

[Ruskie]

Still a lot of questions and few real answers Annie. It would be nice to tie up the loose ends.

You're right about "Waiter in Taverns" as an occupation. I wonder how that might differ from being just an ordinary Waiter? Presumably that would be a transferable skill and John would be able to perform other "waiting" tasks at various establishments (not just at Taverns), or perhaps undertake other employment if and when necessary. Waiting does not seem to be well paid. If he had to pay to work at the Inn and only had his tips to live off, you would not think that would bring in enough income to support a family. (It brings to mind the Monty Python sketch with the Yorkshiremen trying to outdo each other with their tales of deprivation ... "you think that's bad? I had to pay the Tavern keeper to let me work at the Tavern.") 

Anyway, this might add some weight to John possibly also being a labourer, a tradesman or beerhouseman ...) as well as a "Waiter". 

[Rosinish]

Ruskie....

I'm busy here trying to do a kind of summary with all the given info. contributed so far.

From the info. provided by Lily....if John spent more time with "suspected" wife no. 2 then that would account for the consistency with his occupation & living with them most of the time & the differences of occupations given by his children with wife no. 1.

I would be interested in what his occupation was prior to my "suspected" marriage no. 2.

I would be interested if there was a "change" of occupation between the births prior to the "gap" & after.

Of course we all love a good story & a good challenge but at the same time we need input & interest from the OP regardless which topic we try to help with.

There are "Posters" who would jump at the chance to give more info. on such an exciting theory to help with our investigations & would also be excited that there is/was a possibility of such.

In my opinion it's this kind of thing that makes us "hungry" for more in Genealogy whether proven right or wrong but it sure fascinates most who are genuinely interested.

Annie

[Ruskie]

Too true Annie. 

 

[Lily M]

This doesn't get us any further, but just for a possible solution to the "waiter at a tavern"

Maybe the OP has a birth certificate for one of the younger children - Rosina or Ernest, and that's what is given for father's occupation.

[Rosinish]

Ok...Looking back at the info.

When I scroll, I can't get far enough back the posts to insert quotes but...

Sorry Ruskie,

I thought this was the info. already given by Millie but I now see it isn't 

"Christ Church St Marylebone - Nov 7 1858 - three baptisms on the same day with parents John West and Sarah of 14 Little James St.
Sarah (b 1847),
Eliza (b 1850) and
Emma (b 1852)"

The birth yrs of ALL the above can't be ANY of the 2 families in question according to yrs born/ages on census.

Both Sarah's from marriages 1 & 2 were b c1831
Eliza b c 1833 (on marriage no. 2)
Emma not yet born (1852)

This is Millie's.......Reply #9

"There are 3 baptisms 27 Nov 1836 but father is William John waiter Surrey Street.
Children Lewis John - William ? - Sarah Ann Maria"

Marriage No. 1 (from 1851)

Lewis (Louis on 1851) b c 1827
William ? (not on 1851) but from Josie Reply #11 "I think this says William Julius born 1829. Is this the son who died in 1836"....clarified by toots on Reply #12
Sarah Ann Maria (Sarah on 1851) b c 1831

Annie

[Lily M]

Annie,  the baptisms you have given above match the children/grandchildren of the 2nd  wife Sarah West in 1851.   Sarah age 4 and Eliza age 2

I'm sure these can't really be John and Sarah's children though.  More likely to be daughter Sarah's children.  As was suggsted earlier.    I can't find either of them after 1851

[Rosinish]

This doesn't get us any further, but just for a possible solution to the "waiter at a tavern"

Maybe the OP has a birth certificate for one of the younger children - Rosina or Ernest, and that's what is given for father's occupation.

Lily....it does help though as we can verify thanks to amondg Reply #21

The daughter Rosina Eliza was baptized 6 August 1837 at St John the Evangelist Lambeth fathers name was John West, waiter of Little Surrey Street. Mother Sarah  in the margin born July 1837.

Annie

[Rosinish]

Annie,  the baptisms you have given above match the children/grandchildren of the 2nd  wife Sarah West in 1851.   Sarah age 4 and Eliza age 2

I'm sure these can't really be John and Sarah's children though.  More likely to be daughter Sarah's children.  As was suggsted earlier.    I can't find either of them after 1851

Thanks Lily for pointing that out .....I thought Ruskie (sorry) was meaning the children from both those marriages & never crossed my mind about the 1861 

I see from 1861 it's the grandchildren....duh (I'm so tired) going through all this info.

Annie

ADDED...It was the 3 baptisms on same day which threw me 

[maddys52]

Couldn't help having a look at this family after seeing the query on the "How to Use RootsChat" board, even though a lot of work was done in 2016 without any reply from the OP.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=879680

12tootsi34 - have you looked at the Valentine WEST (Jun qtr 1839 St Mary Newington) who is with the family in 1861. He appears to be the son of Henry WEST and Hannah (nee CARTER) who married 13 Dec 1835 at St John the Baptist, Hillingdon. One of the  witnesses was John WEST. To me this implies a family relationship, probably brothers - Henry and John.

Henry and Hannah WEST can be found on the 1841 at St Mary Newington
HO 107/1065/7 pg12 & 13.

Henry dies between 1841 and 1851. There are various Workhouse entries for the children around 1851 "father dead and mother in Guy's Hospital".