1841 census.

[Lily M]

I wouldn't like to call yes or no on those signatures.

There's another John West signature that might be relevant. ( I'm sorry but I have no idea how to copy & paste from an I pad)   There's an 1835 London marriage between Henry West and Hannah Carter  (I believe these to be the parents of Valentine West who is with the family in 1861)  A John West was a witness to the marriage.

It seems that even his children weren't too sure what it was John did for a living.  On Louis John's 1854 marriage he has father as John West  gentleman.    Ernest's 1867 marriage has father as John  tradsman, and on Ernest's 2nd marriage (as a widower) in 1907 he has father as John  deceased  beerhouseman.

[josey]

Christ Church St Marylebone - Nov 7 1858 - three baptisms on the same day with parents John West and Sarah of 14 Little James St -: Sarah (b 1847), Eliza (b 1850) and Emma (b 1852). I can't work out the father's occupation though it may be "father died"?

Yes, 'Father decd'. Why can't they have put the occupation as well grrrr. So that father must have died Feb 1852 at the earliest.

[josey]

I'm sorry but I have no idea how to copy & paste from an I pad)   There's an 1835 London marriage between Henry West and Hannah Carter  (I believe these to be the parents of Valentine West who is with the family in 1861)  A John West was a witness to the marriage.

I do a 'print screen' & save as a .jpg from picture editing software [mine is Paint Shop Pro].

This 1835 signature looks much more confident than the others. I would say 1819 one is not the same as the 1827 but it's not easy - neither of them look like a writer at ease with signing.

[Lily M]

Thank you Josey.  I'll start practising with that.

[Ruskie]

Christ Church St Marylebone - Nov 7 1858 - three baptisms on the same day with parents John West and Sarah of 14 Little James St -: Sarah (b 1847), Eliza (b 1850) and Emma (b 1852). I can't work out the father's occupation though it may be "father died"?

Yes, 'Father decd'. Why can't they have put the occupation as well grrrr. So that father must have died Feb 1852 at the earliest.

"Decd" of course! 

It could be worth purchasing the birth certificates in the hope that the father's occupation is given. Maybe the OP already has those, as he said he has most of the children's births, I wonder if he means certificates?

Regarding the signatures, thanks for posting those Josey.  I am not sure that any of them match any of the others, but as noted, those from the '24 and '27 marriages are not written in a confident hand(s) so it is difficult to know if they were written by the same person.

[Rosinish]

Josey.....A big thanks from me too & a big thanks to Lily too (very helpful indeed both but more confusing now) 

My view is there are similarities very apparent with certain letters in all 3 signatures but some letters from each signature only match parts of the other 2 signatures (if that makes sense)  ....

None of the 3 are consistent with any of the other 2 but a lot of each matches the other 2 (best I can describe what I'm trying to say)

I'm still reading through everything posted since I went out & trying to piece it all together to establish whether there is still a possibility with my theory 

I wouldn't like to call yes or no on those signatures.

There's another John West signature that might be relevant. There's an 1835 London marriage between Henry West and Hannah Carter  (I believe these to be the parents of Valentine West who is with the family in 1861)  A John West was a witness to the marriage.

It seems that even his children weren't too sure what it was John did for a living.  On Louis John's 1854 marriage he has father as John West  gentleman. Ernest's 1867 marriage has father as John  tradsman, and on Ernest's 2nd marriage (as a widower) in 1907 he has father as John  deceased  beerhouseman.

Lily,

That kind of shakes the scenario for me....Tradesman (what would this include...very vague description in terms) although Beerhouse man would kind of fit possibly with Waiter.

It would be interesting to know what is on the marriages for the kids of Sarah French regarding father's occupation 

Annie

[Ruskie]

I'm looking forward to a response by the OP.

Although your theory, Annie, may not end up being right, you have worked hard through the wee hours to come up with it. Some additional information, answers to our earlier questions, and his or her thoughts on your bigamy theory from the OP might be nice.

I am especially interested in the children's birth entries or certificates, and would like to know exactly what John's name was on each of them, and also exactly what his occupation is written as.

Over to you "12toots".

[Lily M]

These could be the marriages for the 2nd family

Sarah West mar. William Grubb 1854

Elizabeth West mar. Thomas Caster 1857 (witness William Grubb)

Fanny West mar. John Chad 1866 (witness Sarah Grubb)

All three of these had father John West - labourer  (no mention as to dead or alive)

[Rosinish]

These could be the marriages for the 2nd family

Sarah West mar. William Grubb 1854

Elizabeth West mar. Thomas Caster 1857 (witness William Grubb)

Fanny West mar. John Chad 1866 (witness Sarah Grubb)

All three of these had father John West - labourer  (no mention as to dead or alive)

Now that's consistent Lily for to be the correct family I would say.

I'm waiting on someone finding a marriage with a father John who's a "Waiter in Taverns" 

Yes Ruskie,

It would be nice to have a response which could help further whether to identify or eliminate John one way or the other.

Why did that gap with the children have to appear, the very thing that got me wondering to begin with 

Was it just a coincidence that children were born elsewhere in that space of time 

Why were both John's not on 1841 & 1851 with their respective wives 


Annie