WW1 Royal Irish Regiment & WO 364 records

[Fernz]

I’m trying to help an elderly friend find the WO 364 (‘pension’) records for her father, who was discharged from the Royal Irish Regiment in September 1917 because of a gunshot wound.
We’ve been searching (intermittently but for a few years!!) on Ancestry and Find My Past, and have his entry on the medal rolls and also on the Silver War Badge roll. We can’t find his WO 363 (service) record, but didn’t expect to because so many of those records were burnt. We did expect to find him in the WO 364 ‘pension’ records but have had absolutely no luck. After the initial ‘no result’ I’ve searched just by first name (with wild card/s), by surname (with wild card/s), by regiment, and by regimental number.
I’ve also searched for the 11 other RIR soldiers mentioned on the same SWB page and I can’t find them either.
My friend says her father received a partial disability pension of 1 pound a week. He died in 1959. She has his discharge papers, but would like to find his service record (via his WO 364) to find out where he fought.
I know some WO 364 records were filed out of order and others have had their names mis-read, but I thought I would have flushed him out by now! So I’m hoping there’s someone out there who’s more familiar with WO 364 and can advise why this soldier (and the other 11 on the same SWB page) is unfindable in WO 364 – e.g. maybe there’s a cut-off date, or it excludes Irish soldiers?
Fingers crossed … and thanks for any help!

[crisane]

This is what the Long Long Trail website has to say about the WO364 record set

"Collection WO364, also known as the Unburnt Records.
It is also often referred to (incorrectly) as the Pension Records. Some records or parts of records appear to have been removed from the building that burned as they were later found at the Ministry of Pensions. These records are usually a relatively small subset of what would have been the man’s record. They are in the hands of the National Archives and WO364 is the series number that relates to these records.  It is possible to find a record in both WO363 and WO364.
◾These records are now online at Ancestry
◾And at Findmypast
◾They are also available on microfilm at the National Archives although staff there will insist that you use the digital sources first
◾The originals are no longer accessible to the public."

So it seems the complete set did not surive.

[Fernz]

Many thanks, crisnane. I'd seen the Long Long Trail's comment before, but it's a bit ambiguous and doesn't quite jell with info on the TNA site. The Ministry of Pensions records back-ended into WO 364 were those still being paid out after 1938, so my friend's father should have been amongst them. Still hoping that someone might have more personal knowledge about the ins and outs of WO 364 - but thanks again for your help    

[KGarrad]

FindMyPast has this to say:

WO 364 - First World War pension claims WO 364 are service records of non-commissioned officers and men who were discharged from the British Army and who either claimed disability pensions for war service from 1914 to 1920 or who were deemed likely to claim a pension. These records were stored with the Ministry of Pensions and, therefore, escaped the bombing that so decimated the records we now find in WO 363. These records are unlikely to contain any papers for soldiers who were either killed in action and had no dependents or who were discharged as part of the demobilisation at the end of the First World War and did not claim a pension.

[jim1]

but would like to find his service record (via his WO 364) to find out where he fought

As you've pretty much exhausted what's out there may be you should approach it from another direction.
Does his SWB or Medal Roll give a Battalion ?
If so you can download the war diary, although OR's are rarely mentioned you should be able to work out where he was & what happened when he received his wound.

[km1971]

These sites have missed off one important point. Following the fire the WO/PRO asked other departments for records they no longer needed.  These were mainly failed pension claims from WW1 and records for men granted a temporary pension that had lapsed.

So the record of a man receiving a pension in the mid-1940s would not have been passed over.

Ken

[Fernz]

Thanks everyone!
 
Jim1 - thanks also for suggesting the war diaries. The Medal Roll and the SWB roll give different battalions, but there was a letter from him published in the local paper which makes it clear that he was with the 6th Bn (at least in Sept/Oct 1916). And there is indeed a war diary for the 6th Bn. Next step is to find out from TNA how much it’ll cost! The ‘free’ one at TNA is unreadable.
 
Ken – thanks, too, for pointing out that WO 364 isn’t necessarily a complete record re pensions. I’d assumed that the ‘Third Collation’ (WO 364/5000-5804; soldiers getting a pension after 1938) included soldiers who were still receiving their pension in the ‘40s and ‘50s. Now I can see that’s not the same thing. Something else to follow up with TNA!

[km1971]

Good luck with the TNA. They no longer have these records. So as staff with military knowledge leave their replacements do not need to know the background.

Ken

[jim1]

The diary will cost £3.45 & can be downloaded.
I can say the 6th. Batt. were at Bullecourt France Sept./Oct. 1917 according to their diary.
The other date you give which is Sept. 1916 the 6th. were at Carnoy (Somme) where they lost half their Batt. & pretty much all of their Officers.
As you don't mention the other possible Batt. I can't comment on that.
Saying you have 2 Batt's. indicates he was taken off the strength of his regular Batt. & transferred to another prior to his discharge.
Without a name & no. it's difficult to say which Batt. he was in when he was wounded.