Missing Person - Humphrey Hall, Publican of Sydney Hotels 1870's

[Jamjar]

"We have found a Humphrey Hall who died in Kalgoorlie W.A. in 1899, aged 57 years, but whether this was the person we are looking for, just don't know."

From WA BDM site it has him as age 62. All other area say unknown, so wouldn't be much use getting that cert. There were a heck of a lot of 'Hall' in that cemetery.

Jamjar

[janjim]

Hi Jamjar and Essie,

Thank you so much for all of this research you have done for us.  I think now that we have found the whole situation in regard to Mary Hall, especially finding her death in 1895, we won't worry too much about finding more information regarding Humphrey Hall, as it appears that the child they had does not show up in records, although newspapers indicate the birth.

Basically we were trying to get to the bottom of the story in regard to Mary Hall, and now having found that she was married previously to Joseph Patrick Carroll and had 5 children to him, this probably is where we should remain in regard to her research.   It would seem that maybe the Madden family now come into the picture, maybe that was her maiden name, after seeing one of the SMH publications.   When we get the marriage certificate, hopefully this will give a clearer picture on her.

We originally found SMH information requesting our G G Grandmother, Sophia Briscoe to make contact with her niece Mrs. Hall at the Mariner's Hotel, Lime Street, Sydney.  We were never aware that there were any other family members in Australia.

Sophia Briscoe came to Australia in 1849 shown on shipping records, as a Widow with her 5 children from Dublin Ireland.  She was married to a John William Briscoe who was an Attorney in the 4 Courts of Dublin, and we have records up to 1846 indicating he was still operating in Dublin, but from there on, we cannot find a death for him.    Why Sophia came to Australia, we do not know, but maybe they came upon hard times in Ireland, maybe John Briscoe left her, but at this stage cannot find any shipping records for him either.   Sophia Briscoe b. 1813 was formerly Kennedy, her father a very well known Attorney, George Kennedy, in Dublin.  There are many articles written about both gentlemen.

But we are now thinking that Sophia made the decision to come to Australia to be near her other family members, now that we have found Mary Hall.   Of course Mary Hall her niece could be from either side of her family, her own, or maybe her husband John Briscoe's family.

We are struggling to get to the bottom of this, but we have ascertained through Irish records that Sophia had siblings, Charlotte b. 1802, Frederick b. 1810, Thomas, Brian b. 1813, Elizabeth b. 1814, George and Elizabeth b. 1819.

So were are on the search now to find any other family members who came to Australia before Sophia's arrival in Sydney 1849.   She was shown as a House Servant, a Widow, could read and write and was a Protestant, although half of her children were baptised in the Catholic Church, the other half in the Church of Ireland.    We have found various SMH newspaper cuttings for Sophia where she was working for some people in the early 1850's around Sydney. 

So I thank you all for your help, it looks like now, we will have to go back to more research in Ireland, once we find more details on the marriage certificate.  Fortunately Australia's certificates are much better detailed than the UK, will give us a much better insight into the family.

[Jamjar]

It's always good to get a mystery solved.

I would be interested in what is on the marriage cert if you could give and update upon it's arrival.

I read about Sophie in court. What a colourful character. She would have been fun to know.

Happy seeking.

Jamjar

[janjim]

Jamjar,
Yes will certainly do that, as soon as we get the marriage certificate, you may be able to help us further, who knows.   We really appreciate your assistance, and oh yes, Sophia has been seen as quite a character, daughter of an esteemed lawyer, really wonder what happened over in Ireland.    We cannot even find any newspaper articles on her husband, a person with such high esteem in Dublin, surely the papers would have shown something on his death, they certainly did for Sophia's Father.

There is much history on Sophia's family working on the waterfront of Sydney Harbour, son George had a big business as a Van Proprietor and Shop at Miller's Point, his wife Mary's family were very involved in the building of the famous Donnelly boats at Balmain, and Sophia's brother Henry had a newsagency on the waterfront.

It appears that Sophia and her family must have come to Australia as assisted immigrants, you would have thought they would have had money, but as I've said previously, maybe they hit hard times in Ireland.   Maybe one day we will find out what happened to her Husband (our GG Grandfather).
Jan

[Jamjar]

My interest was aroused at the mention of Balmain. I'm an old Balmain girl with many of the males being merchant seaman. I was looking at the Sands Directory and it was bringing back memories seeing all those street names. Also had relatives living at Milson's point who were all merchant seamen.

Ah, so George our van chappie was Sophia's son.

Would love to assist, just give a yell.

Jamjar

[Jamjar]

Sophia came over during the Ireland Potato Famine. A good reason to skip town if you can afford it.

"Beginning in 1845 and lasting for six years, the potato famine killed over a million men, women and children in Ireland and caused another million to flee the country. Ireland in the mid-1800s was an agricultural nation, populated by eight million persons who were among the poorest people in the Western World."

[janjim]

Hi again,
Yes we were very aware of the potato famine, but you wonder about John William Briscoe her husband, maybe he fled to the USA or somewhere else.
My husband did a lot of sailing around Sydney Harbour, in his early days, in fact he sailed on one of the Donnelly boats, did not know of the family connection in those days, and finding so much history for this family, particularly on all the boats that Joe Donnelly designed has been quite amazing.   Of course we knew nothing of the Briscoe's either until these last couple of years. It has been quite a journey.

Have found a Margaret daughter of George Kennedy, Attorney in Dublin who married in 1831.  Still searching there.

We think we have just found more information on Mary, her Mother was Catherine who died at Mary's house in Datchet Street, Balmain in 1866.     Still searching !

[Jamjar]

Yes, that looks to be her mother:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13129069?searchTerm=%22datchett%20street%20balmain%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-category=Family+Notices|||l-state=New+South+Wales

Catherine Madden 1622/1866 father John mother Catherine Balmain

and this is a likely for her father:

Andrew Madden 7809/1874 father Patrick  Shoalhaven - no mother given.

Andrew death notice: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13338209?searchTerm=%22Andrew%20madden%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-category=Family+Notices|||l-state=New+South+Wales

Mary's marriage notice: http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/13063625?searchTerm=%22Andrew%20madden%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-category=Family+Notices|||l-state=New+South+Wales

Jamjar

[majm]

............   When we get the marriage certificate, hopefully this will give a clearer picture on her.. 

May I suggest you consider ordering an official transcription rather than the 'real deal' certificate.  You will get all the same info that the real deal document has, it is cheaper, and arrives as email attachment.  Itis possible that there's blanks on that civil registration.   NSW BDM's own website acknowledges that their registers are not complete, and makes the suggestion to follow up with the church registers.

If there are elusive blanks on the full Official Transcription, then here's a thread that may help.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=546609.0

Here's NSW BDM's webpage with the contact details for their official transcription agents. 
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx#transcription

JM