Author Topic: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please  (Read 2451 times)

Offline Deirdre784

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Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« on: Friday 08 July 16 00:33 BST (UK) »
Can anyone improve the quality of this newspaper cutting please?

Unfortunately it is only a photocopy of the original cutting from around 1916, but is the best I can get. I'm hoping to approach the local records offices to see if anyone can narrow down the typeface to a particular newspaper so I can look through them for the original, but in the meantime I'm wondering if any of you magicians can help.

The article is written about Walter Leigh (top row, left), a brother of my husband's great grandfather Harry, who is on the bottom row, far right. Another brother William is on the right of the top row, and a half brother and 2 brothers-in-law are also pictured. These are the only photos we have of the family so are delighted to have finally got a copy of the cutting but...

...the man we are really interested in is in the middle of the top row, described as Walter R Leigh, father of the brothers. The text underneath says that Walter R Leigh, late of Pontypridd, fought at Isandlwana (sp!) with the 2nd Warwickshire regiment. Sadly no record can be found of him ever being with the 2nd Warwickshires, or even with any other regiment, though his occupation was given as 'private 24th foot' on his marriage on 31 October 1876 and the birth of his eldest son Walter on 22 March 1877. Another son - registered, we believe, under a false name - was born on 28 Dec 1878, with Walter described as a coachman. They had another 6 children, including one born after Walter's death on 14 June 1891. In both the 1881 and 1891 censuses we believe he and the family are recorded under false names.       

Walter Robert Leigh, my husband's great great grandfather, has been the subject of several posts on this website, on several boards, including
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=590648.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=652751.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=704542.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=641217.9
and while we believe we have found all there is to find on him (birth, 2 baptisms, marriage, death, burial, all censuses, children), some things remain a mystery and this picture (if it is him) might help to solve a mystery or would be the icing on the cake.

Can anyone improve the quality enough for the military experts to see anything of his uniform, or to suggest if this photo could really be of a man who died in 1891 aged 46.

Apologies for the length of the post.....   

Thanks,

Deirdre
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline jim1

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #1 on: Friday 08 July 16 11:33 BST (UK) »
Even enhanced you wouldn't be able to positively identify his Regt. as all there is are the collar dogs.
However the basic shape looks very similar to the 24th's.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #2 on: Friday 08 July 16 11:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks Jim, i appreciate it's asking a lot (and obviously even the actual newspaper wouldn't show any more), but this man has been such an enigma that any info is appreciated.

Finding it hard to believe that as a private in the 1870s he would have had a photo taken (and that his descendants would still have it almost 40 years later). On the other hand, why lie and have him added to the article?

Added: are you able to see enough to suggest when the photo might have been taken?
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline jim1

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #3 on: Friday 08 July 16 12:14 BST (UK) »
It was very common for soldiers to have a photo taken. They were very cheap in the 1870's when I suspect this was taken.
To date it accurately we would need to see the original card.
You notice in this he has a full head of hair, a large wave on the top, this was a typical style of the 70's.
Difficult to give an age but possibly 30's.
I also suspect he was with Chelmford's column rather than involved in the battle as he would have been unlikely to have survived.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline Trishanne

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #4 on: Friday 08 July 16 12:35 BST (UK) »
I agree with Jim, this man doesn't look 47 years old.
This is as clear as I can make them I'm afraid

Pat
Bownass - Lancashire & Westmorland
Hoggarth - Lancashire & Westmorland
Jackson- Lancaster
Waller - Dent, Yorkshire dales
Omerod - Lancashire
Redburn - Lancashire
Evans - Hereford

RESTORERS please do not use my restores without my permission THANK YOU

Offline Trishanne

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #5 on: Friday 08 July 16 12:36 BST (UK) »
One on his own
Pat
Bownass - Lancashire & Westmorland
Hoggarth - Lancashire & Westmorland
Jackson- Lancaster
Waller - Dent, Yorkshire dales
Omerod - Lancashire
Redburn - Lancashire
Evans - Hereford

RESTORERS please do not use my restores without my permission THANK YOU

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #6 on: Friday 08 July 16 12:41 BST (UK) »
Thanks Jim, that seems to suggest then that the photo is of a man who could have been with the 2nd Warwicks at Isandlwana (Walter was born in 1845 so would have been in his mid 30s).

Shame that there is no army record of him at all, the mystery deepens 🙄
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #7 on: Friday 08 July 16 12:42 BST (UK) »
Pat, those are amazing from what you had to work with. Thanks so much :)
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: Newspaper picture of Walter R Leigh - help please
« Reply #8 on: Friday 08 July 16 13:07 BST (UK) »
Excuse the ignorance, but if he was a groom in the army (he was recorded as a groom or coachman or ostler from 1878* onwards), would he have had a uniform and a rank?

* i know isandlwana was in 1879 but we have a son's birth certificate from December 1878 (admittedly under a false name) where he was a coachman.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....