Blind or Deceased? Opinions Sought Please

[cazza59]

Rigor is not a permanent state:

"Contrary to common perception the process of Rigor Mortis actually does reverse and the body returns to a flaccid state; the muscles losing their tightness in the reverse of how they gained it: i.e.: those larger muscles that contracted last will lose their stiffness first and return to their pre-Rigor condition."


I'm quite convinced this is a PM photo.  Apart from what I mentioned earlier, the deceased child is not being supported by the sister and positioned near the curtain for no reason.

Caz

[cazza59]

WARNING looking at this link may be disturbing.

Here are some other examples of PM photos.  Note how the deceased have been positioned (including curling of the hands).  Also, particularly note photo No. 7.

http://www.viralnova.com/post-mortem-victorian-photographs/

Caz

[jim1]

Looking at Cazza's link I'm not convinced all of them are PM's. There are some standard uses of props & people used to hold children still. It doesn't mean they're dead.

[groom]

Looking closely at the curtain, it does look like the shape of an arm.

[Treetotal]

I'm with Caz on this one...especially the curtain and the feet don't look right compared to the older girls...they are not in a natural, balanced stance...the child's jaw is slack too and the facial muscles are dropped and  the child's face is expressionless...whilst the older child is smiling and in my view quite unnatural, even wary.
I suppose we can never be sure but over the last 9 years I have seen many photos on this site and this one disturbs me.
Thanks to everyone for your valued opinion...at the end of the day...we can never be sure, we can only trust our instincts and mine is telling me that this child isn't living.

Once again thank you all for your interesting comments and your valued input.

Carol

[Ruskie]

Looking at Cazza's link I'm not convinced all of them are PM's. There are some standard uses of props & people used to hold children still. It doesn't mean they're dead.

Me too. eg. I'm not sure the last infant is dead.

However I agree that the feet of the girl in Carol's photo are "set" oddly. If she were alive it almost looks as though she might topple over - she does not seem to be putting any weight on them and they are slightly offset from her body.

Good point about the strategically placed and slightly bulging curtain, which I did not notice before. I think that clinches it for me.

[Ruskie]

Myth no 2 on this link might help answer http://dealer042.wix.com/post-mortem-photos#!myth/cee5
apparently it's not possible to stand up even a child...
This is really an education, i had utterly no idea!

If you google victorian post mortem photography props there are several photographs of men, standing, supported by props. The props are visible, but still they are standing, so myth#2 is incorrect.

The bulge in the curtain is about the height of the girl's waist, so I am wondering if someone or something is supporting her waist, and the sister is helping to support her head?

[cazza59]

There are plenty of examples on the net of standing PM photos.  Not sure what credentials the author of that site has, but I think they should have researched more fully as it obviously is possible.  I would never rely on one source anyway before I formed an opinion, and I've researched this issue many times over the years as it often comes up on the board (which is why I knew about the rigor not being permanent in case you're wondering    ).  As Carol says, you can never be 100% certain, but to both of us, this looks to be a more obvious example.

That site even has an example of child standing being held by someone behind a curtain, albeit a lot more obvious than in Carol's photo.

The images of the "photoshopped"   PM photos on that site are grotesque and an affront to genuine Victorian PM photos that were taken out of love and to provide solace to grieving families.  I don't think any with an ounce of common sense would seriously consider these monstrous pics  were used to for grief purposes.

There is also a shadow just below the deceased child's dress in Carol's photo which is intriguing and could be part of the stand.

Caz

[jaybelnz]

Interesting piece about the time frame of rigor mortis here

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/rigor_mortis.aspx