Rev. Robert Hogg of Roxburgh

[DudelsackHogg]

That’s amazing Lesley. Thank you so much for the photos. Wonderful to see.

Homebank is next to Birgham, yes.

That would certainly be my interpretation of “in the 78th year of his age” but I always have to pause and think for a moment.

The family seem to be connected to Elwartlaw next to Greenlaw, Homebank near Birgham and Kersmains north of Roxburgh. I see from Scotlands Places the family were paying horse tax and also Alexander paid Clock and Watch tax at Homebank in 1797-1798.

Thanks again for the photos, it certainly adds weight to the Fasti being incorrect on the date of death.

[DudelsackHogg]

And while we’re having a bit of a language discussion.

Here is the death notice for Homebank Alexander’s son Alexander in 1851.

I confuse myself every time I read it trying to work out if ‘tenant of Homebank’ refers to the father or son.

[Sunlaws]

I think I would plump for Alexander senior being the former tenant of Homebank.

Your William Hogg 1809 of Kelso married Mary of Roxburgh, as far as I can gather from your posts. What was Mary's surname before marriage?

Lesley

[DudelsackHogg]

Mary Waldie

In 1861 William and Mary were living in Kersmains.

I know William’s parents were Andrew Hogg and Elizabeth Davidson. The Andrew is a bit of a mystery. I’ve been exploring other Hogg’s in the area to see where he could maybe fit in and focusing on the areas I know they lived.

One candidate is Alexander’s son Andrew who was born January 1785 at Kersmains. Elizabeth (Betty) Davidson was born October 1782.

The names of William’s and his sister Elizabeth’s children do contain an Isabel, Alexander and Robert - but so do most of the families at that time! Alexander’s Andrew died in 1838 which fits in with my line.

I don’t think this Andrew is the right one but I did spend some time exploring the possibility. I haven’t eliminated him completely but my Andrew is described as a Farm Steward and Land Steward on the death certificates of William and Elizabeth and Alexander’s Andrew was tenant at Birgham Haugh,  I also have his will (well the inventory) and only his brother is named.

[Tomhutton]

You are correct in picking on Andrew son of Alexander. There is a slight misunderstanding on Alexander's gravestone, where the age of Andrew at death is incorrect. Alexander was the son of William Hogg and Bettie Dickson baptised at Roxburgh 27th Jan 1745.

[DudelsackHogg]

I think you could very well be right. I think this William is Rev Robert Hogg’s brother born in 1708.

The fasti says Alexander the son of Robert Hogg was born 11th May 1746 and dies 14th of June 1774.

Crucially, there is a William Hogg who dies in Kersmains 18/12/1791 (Old Parish Registers Deaths 803/ 10 295 Roxburgh)
The entry reads: William Hogg, father to Alexander Hogg late tenant in Kersmains.

I believe this is indeed the William Hogg who married Bettie Dickson.

Alexander Hogg and Bettie Dickson have two recorded children:

Bettie Hogg - born 21 April 1743
Alexander Hogg - born 27 January 1745

The monumental inscription gives a date of death as 30.8.1823 and says in the 78th year of his age.

If this Andrew is the son of William and Bettie, then he would be 78 years and 7 months at the time of death. It’s not far out at all.


The following children are born at Kersmains with only the father Alexander recorded:

Robert - Kersmains 22/06/1771
William - Kersmains 20/02/1773
Mary - Kersmains 31/03/1775
Betty - Kersmains 22/12/1776
Alexander - Kersmains 04/11/1778
Alexander - Kersmains 21/10/1780
John - Kersmains 26/02/1783
Andrew - Kersmains 05/01/1785
Archibald - Kersmains 13/10/1788
Isabel - Kersmains 15/11/1795
Christian - Kersmains 23/08/1802

The naming of the first child as Robert niggles me. This seems to fit better for Alexander the son Robert and Mary however, the naming pattern has variations in this line. Rev. Robert Hogg’s parents Alexander Hogg and Bessie Mein name their first son for the father’s father and first daughter for the father’s mother.  Rev. Robert’s grandparents Johne Hogg and Vair Ker name their first son for the mother’s father and first daughter for the mother’s mother. I think this was done out of respect for the status of the mother’s father - Wair Ker daughter of Thomas Ker Knight of Redden. I’m not really sure who Bettie Dickson’s parents were.

There is a marriage of an Alexander Hogg to an Isabel Young in 1772 Ednam - 788/ 10 250 but that would mean either Robert is illegitimate, it’s not the right Alexander (could he be the son of Rev. Robert's Alexander?) or the marriage entry is not the right one. I know Alexander is recorded as the 'fourth son' on the Kelso Chronicle entry in 1851.

We can also track Alexander from Kersmains to Homebank on the tax rolls.

1788 Alexander Hogg and Andrew Hogg Carsmains
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-10/122

1789 Alexander Hogg and Andrew Hogg Carsmains
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-13/132

1790 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-17/45

1791 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-20/54

1792 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-23/54

1794 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-26/57

1797 horse tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/horse-tax-rolls-1785-1798/horse-tax-volume-29/43

1797 watch tax Alexander Homebank
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/historical-tax-rolls/clock-and-watch-tax-rolls-1797-1798/clock-and-watch-tax-volume-1/39


So this Alexander goes from Kersmains to Homebank around 1790. He is still having children at Kersmains though - Isabel and Christian.

Isabel (Isabella) died 1863 Greenlaw - and the parents are recorded as Alexander Hogg and Isabella Young.

Another interesting Kersmains connection is John Hogg who died in 1858 - the death certificate interestingly say the father Alexander -Kersmains. I did wonder why it says Kersmains and not Homebank here. I thought maybe there were two Alexanders and this was a way to differentiate but the mother is also recorded as Isabel Young. 

The date of death of on the MI, the children’s names and the proximity of Alexander’s headstone to his father are what causes me to question it. I don’t see any mortcloth accounts in 1774 (Roxburgh kirk session, Minutes (1722-1746, 1753-1760), Accounts (1722-1780), CH2/314/2 p477) but perhaps the family had their own. There also doesn’t appear to be a surviving headstone for Andrew in 1774.

But really I’m not sure if that is enough to say the Fasti is wrong when there is evidence to suggest William is the father of Alexander and because of the proximity to the family plot in Roxburgh we can probably deduce that William is indeed the brother of Robert.

[DudelsackHogg]

where the age of Andrew at death is incorrect.

I read your message again and realise that you were referring to the ‘aged 17 years’ transcription. It’s recorded like this in the BFHS Roxburgh monumental inscriptions book. But Yes, it’s clear a mistake has been made - he can’t have been born after his mother died. I haven’t seen the headstone in person and I can’t make it out from the photos posted.

[DudelsackHogg]

One thing that has always intrigued and tantalised me is the inscription that is assumed to be erected by Rev Robert Hogg:

“Here lyes a family of the name of Hogg that has resided in this parish as heretofor more than 600 years as old records do attest”

I am very curious to what ‘old records’ this refers. The earliest reference to Hoggs in Roxburgh I found was in Scottish Arms, A Collection of Armorial Bearings A.D. 1370-1678 (1881)

https://archive.org/details/scottisharmsbein02stoduoft/page/248/mode/2up


It records the following:

Scottish Arms A Collection of Armorial Bearings A.D. 1370-1678 (1881)
P 248-249
Hog . L .; most of the M S S .make the boars'heads armed or.
Henry de Hoga held lands in Berwickshire c. 1250 ; Salomon del Hoga left a daughter and heir, Emma, mother of John de Granthain, who made a grant from his lands at Berwick to the monks of Kelso c. 1270 ; Adam, son of Henry de Hoga,c.1280.

In 1296 Henry Hogge, of the county of Roxburgh, and John Hog, burgess of Edinburgh, swore fealty to Edward I.; Robert, burgess of Edinburgh 1332 ; Roger, burgess of Edinburgh 1359-64, was a con spicuous person, and acted as deputy-accountant 1360; he had several charters of lands, tenements, and annual-rents in Edinburgh and Haddington in the reign of David II., married Margaret Hog ,who married, secondly, John de Peblys, and left a son, John Hog, living 1373. 1379,November 12, the castle of Berwick was taken by Hog, Lydzetwod, and their companions.
1406, James Hog, scutifer ; 1425, Gilbert, armiger ; and 1444, James of Halyden, armiger, all connected with Roxburghshire.


William of Vigourshaugh, co. Roxburgh , was a vassal of the Earl Marischal for lands in Upper Keith before 1480 ; he is probably identical with William Hog, son of Margaret Turnbull, Lady Hop Pringle, who has a suit in 1490 ; about the same time lived Christian, wife of John Craig of that Ilk, and John, Abbot of Culross 1490, who settled lands on Isobel Hog, and her husband, Alexander Hamilton of Grange, and was dead in 1494
The Hogs of Vigourshaugh, latterly styled of Doucott, continued closely connected with the Marischal family, and Monan Hog acted as Marischal-Depute in 1568 ; John , last of Vigourshaugh, was dead in 1647, when his sister, Elizabeth, had inherited that place, Doucott, and Braidyards.
 A son of the family is said to have had a grant of Bleridryne, in the Mearns, from the Earl Marischal, in the reign of James V .; Monan of Bleridryne married, before 1584, Katherine Carnegie, niece of Sir John Carnegie of Kinnaird ; James of Bleridryne registered arms 1693 - argent, three boars' heads erased azure armed and langued or distilling drops of blood gules.

Of this family were the Hogs who possessed Raemoir for several generations, 1690-1800. Mr William Hog, minister of Ayton 1601-16, was father of Mr William of Bogend, advocate 1641, whose eldest son, Roger of Harcarse and Bogend, advocate, registeredarms 1672-argent,threeboars'heads erased azure armed or ;represented Berwickshire in parliament, was Senator of the College of Justice 1677, was knighted, had his lands united and erected into a barony 1681, and died in 1700 ; his son, William of Harcarse, was father of Andrew of Harcarse, who died in 1772. Captain William Hog, merchant in Edinburgh, brother of Lord Harcarse,was father of John of Cammo and Ladykirk, who registered arms 1736, with a crescent for difference; his elder son,John, sold the estates, married Barbara, daughter of Sir Christopher Musgrave, Bart., and died in 1744, leaving four daughters ; in 1783 his brother, Roger of Newliston, registered arms without difference, and was allowed supporters, two boars proper.
John Hog was appointed Bute Pursuivant 1675, and died 1704.

Does anyone have any other sources or any other ideas what records this inscription refers to?

[Tomhutton]

There is a marriage of an Alexander Hogg to an Isabel Young in 1772 Ednam - 788/ 10 250 but that would mean either Robert is illegitimate, it’s not the right Alexander (could he be the son of Rev. Robert's Alexander?) or the marriage entry is not the right one. I know Alexander is recorded as the 'fourth son' on the Kelso Chronicle entry in 1851.

Robert was illegitimate - See the Ednam Kirk Session records, but unfortunately the Roxburgh records for the time are missing.