Fred HARRIS, Great Eastern Hotel, City of London, WW2

[dawnsh]

How did you establish that he had died by 1952?

[jonwarrn]

Another question!
Do you know when Frederick's parents moved to Essex?

I also wonder if we can assume that Frederick was actually domiciled in London in 1939. Working at the Great Eastern Hotel, yes, but that is right by Liverpool Street station. He could have easily popped back to a home in the eastern counties.

I can't tell you the age of Ethel's husband in 1939 -  we are not allowed to do look ups of that register in any case - however it is simple to establish that her man wasn't actually in the household at the time.

There are a couple of Frederick Charles Harris deaths in Norfolk as you intimated. However, they weren't born in the county, and I do not think they married there.
John

[[Ray]]

How did you identify Frederick Charles Harris b 1912 Norfolk as your target?

What is your starting point that you can prove by documentation?

Why do you think that FCH died before 1952 (65 years ago) ?

[ please message one of us if you really think that it is a sensitive subject ]


Your profile mentions "Mears" and "Norfolk" - So the FCH with mother Mears is close?
Do you have FCH's birth certificate?

[Annette7]

Are you absolutely sure that the Frederick Charles Harris born Norfolk was born 29/1/1912?

Because there was another one of that name born in Greenwich in the same quarter and it could possibly be him who was the Hotel Waiter in London??

If, however, you are positive the above birth date is for your man then clearly the surviving family members are not as closeknit as they thought they were when he is clearly shown as married in 1939 and this they were not aware of!

Annette

[AnneToday]

Hi,
I am positive my target is Frederick Charles Harris born 29/1/1912 in Norfolk.
 
1952 is one of the datum points I use to relate to my memories.   Fred was “died in the War” by then.

Fred’s parent never moved to Essex.

“popped back to a home in the eastern counties” – could this be done on a Hotel Waiter’s wages in 1939, to a family who would not have been able to help financially?

The age of Ethel’s husband at time of marriage in 1936 would help.

I am aware of the one born in Greenwich and, yes, he could possibly be the Hotel Waiter, but is he Frederick Charles? The actual date of birth for him would help.  He was registered in Jan-Mar quarter, but could have been born between end of December and end of March.

The Rangoon Memorial has the following – but there is nothing on the Commonwealth War Graves site or any other site for him:

HARRIS, Private, FREDERICK, 4982582. 2nd Bn. West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own). 5th May 1944. Age 32. Face 8.

Could he be born in Greenwich or Sunderland – my two unresolved births?

Anne

[jonwarrn]

Hi
I would have thought that for the Frederick C Harris, March 1912, Greenwich, the most likely death would be
Dec qtr 1981 Gravesend
Harris, Frederick Charles
d-o-b 30 December 1911

Not so bad location wise either for that one. Probate in 1981 - Frederick Charles Harris of 25 Cleveland House Laburnum Grove Northfleet Kent died 1 October 1981

No Frederick C Harris births in June qtr 1912
For the Sep quarter 1912 there are two -
Frederick C. Harris - mother Dibbley, registered Sunderland
Frederick C. Harris - mother Harris, registered Southampton

two deaths which match on age, although different locations
March qtr 1968, Warley East, Frederick C Harris, age 55
Possible probate for him in 1968 -  Frederick Copson Harris of 49 Pitcairn Rd Smethwick Warley Worcs died 23 February 1968
and
March 1984 Hillingdon
Frederick Charles Harris
d-o-b 10 August 1912

John

[jonwarrn]

The Rangoon Memorial has the following –

HARRIS, Private, FREDERICK, 4982582. 2nd Bn. West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own). 5th May 1944. Age 32. Face 8.

Army Roll of Honour 1939-1945 says he was born Burton-on-Trent, Derbyshire
died 5 May 1944, theatre of war Burma
There's a probate record for him too I think, in 1944 - Harris, Frederick of 76 Lansdowne road Swadlincote Derbyshire died 5 May 1944 on war service. Administration to Ethel Mary Harris, wife of Thomas Valentine Harris.

[dawnsh]

Frederick Charles Harris, your person of interest, born Norfolk, 1912, do you have his birth certificate?

[Annette7]

I tried to look at the bigger picture in case I could gain anything from that - couldn't find a marriage between a Harris and a Mears but eventually discovered (from the war entry for Leonard) that Robert was said to be Robert Ernest Harris.

However, he appears to have given himself the name Robert Ernest, as he was plain Ernest at birth, plus with his family in 1881, 1891, 1901 census as plain Ernest.   He then marries as Robert Ernest Harris to Mary Ann Meyers (although her birth entry is Mears) and yet on the following census is listed as plain Ernest again.   In 1939 and his death in 1954 he is Robert E.

There is no connection with this man and his family to Staffordshire at all (the ones there were a father and son who were both named Robert Edward (born 1864 Norfolk and 1896 Hanley, Staffs).

Annette

Edit: Have now discovered he was baptised when he was 10, as Robert Ernest Harris 28/2/1884 Barton, son of William and Lydia although he continued to be known as Ernest until his marriage.