Fred HARRIS, Great Eastern Hotel, City of London, WW2

[AnneToday]

Dawn,
My target is Frederick Charles Harris born 29/1/1912, Norfolk.   I personally took my information from a birthday book, handwritten by Frederick’s father.

John,
For the Sep quarter 1912 there are two -
Frederick C. Harris - mother Dibbley, registered Sunderland  I have this one as unresolved.

Frederick C. Harris - mother Harris, registered Southampton
Army Roll of Honour: 
HARRIS, FREDERICK CHARLES  Died 2/10/1944 ARNHEM OOSTERBEEK WAR CEMETERY   Private   Royal Engineers, The Dorsetshire Regt  Soldier No. 2062425  Age 32
Son of Alfred and Maud Harris, of Southampton; husband of Norah Lillian Harris, of Millbrook, Southampton.    Frederick married Norah Bailey in 1935

Details for Private Frederick Charles Harris 4982582 5/5/1944 seem conclusive to me, thank you.

I would have thought that for the Frederick C Harris, March 1912, Greenwich, the most likely death would be Dec qtr 1981 Gravesend. Harris, Frederick Charles  d-o-b 30 December 1911

I agree, so that leaves only my Frederick, born Jan 1912, on the birth list and the 1939 Registration.  The full name and date of birth are correct on the Register, therefore, it must be him in The Great Eastern Hotel.

 I don’t have a problem with him being there, but, where did he go next?  Was the married status on the registration correct?  Where did he die?    The hotel was bombed, but not destroyed, in 1941.  I wonder if there’s a memorial somewhere in the hotel archives to those working there who fell in the war, but not in the armed forces? 

Annette,
Frederick’s father was officially Robert Ernest, but he called himself Ernest.    Where did you find a birth record saying he was just Ernest?    Do you have a copy of the baptism record which gives his age?

Mary Ann’s correct name is Mears, the other is a spelling mistake.

I never mentioned a connection with Staffordshire.

 Anne

[jonwarrn]

Hi again
The Great Eastern Hotel was owned by the London and North Eastern Railway
Any surviving LNER staff records should be at TNA (their catalogue mentions some at Aberdeen University?) I'm not sure whether there are any online on ancestry, possibly not, but you would have to check.

You know about 1939, so I guess I can talk about it (well, one page of it). It says that a number of the staff were in the Great Eastern Hotel London A.R.P. Service. Sadly, I don't believe that any ARP service records have survived.
For Frederick and another chap, however, it says L.N.E.R. Hotels A.R.P. Service (or Services)
Is there any significance in that different wording? I don't know!

According to wikipedia, which I would not take as the last word on any subject, but is handy for lazy people like me, the LNER owned 23 hotels.
So was Frederick in London temporarily? Perhaps some of the waiters there had already joined up and he had been recently drafted in? It must have been a very busy hotel. Or was he perhaps a kind of roving waiter, working at different LNER hotels at different times?
Sorry to harp on about the Norfolk marriage, but one of the LNER hotels was the Sandringham Hotel, Hunstanton (I do think you will need to look up Ethel in 1939)

Re the mystery Weston death of Frederick C Harris in 1942. I really don't know who that one is, again there is probate for him (1943). This tells us that his address was 25 Jubilee Road Weston Super Mare. And that he died 10 December 1942 at Statutory Hospital, Weston. Administration to Violet Ruby Ellen Harris widow.
So we can see from the GRO indexes that he married March qtr 1939, Weston, spouse Violet R E Trim.
Age on death (29) would be one year out for your Frederick. It's also the wrong part of the country for the LNER. I think his widow Violet may not have remarried.
John

[dawnsh]

His father's 1884 baptism is transcribed here along with an image of the Bishops Transcript

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27HY-LPX

[ScouseBoy]

Is it possible that some waiters could be employed on LNER services including "sleeper" 

[dawnsh]

I see brother Leonard died during WW2 in India, did his other brothers serve in WW2?

Is Leonard's death noted by his father in the birthday book?

My grandmother had such a birthday book and all events were noted.

[Annette7]

I posted a reply to this thread last night but no longer appears here!!

I gave details of the baptism for Robert Ernest Harris which is since been given by dawnsh.

As to the mention of Staffordshire - you did in fact mention this on your other thread for Frederick Charles Harris in which you say you believe that he joined the Army and that it was likely to have been a Staffordshire Regiment - this would suggest that the family had some connection to Staffordshire!

Annette

[dawnsh]

bottom of page 2 reply #17?

and a related topic

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=746957.0

[dawnsh]

Electoral Roll 1938/9 - found two men of the same name in Stoke Newington, but not at the September 1939 Registration. 

Anne

the chap at 109 Dynevor Road Stoke Newington in the 1939 electoral register is not your person of interest.

[AnneToday]

Hi,
Firstly, several members of Frederick’s mother’s family worked on the railways and were living in various parts of the country.  So, it is more than feasible that Frederick did the same. He might have started working on the trains and then saw an opening in the hotel trade that he preferred.

Annette,
Yes, I did mention a Staffordshire Regiment, sorry, it slipped my mind and I missed it when I re-read the thread. Frederick’s Uncle Jack was a policeman in Staffordshire, and Staffordshire was listed on one of the records I was looking at, but then, as above, Frederick had railway connected relatives in several places.

Dawn, 
Thank you for the link, I had found this but it does not give the age of Robert Ernest at baptism. 

Leonard was the only brother who served in WW2.  Only birthdays were entered in the birthday book.

Thank you for eliminating the Stoke Newington entry.

ScouseBoy,
The 1939 Register just says “hotel waiter”, with the hotel as the household address, so I don’t know.
 
Related topic on Rootschat.
This is the same Frederick, but I hoped members connected to the London Board may be able to help as well, and you have all very kindly done so.

Thank you all for the other leads, which I’ll follow and report back.

Anne