Tracing from Finland/Russia (Carl Bjornvik)

[Stephanie Campbell]

I updated my previous post to include information before my link Minniehaha

Do you happen to know if there is there anyone very well versed in Finnish/Russian emigrants/immigrants and the Shipping routes?

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello...

Welcome to Rootschat

They [...] were all at one point (1885) living in Dunedin.

What info do you have which says the three all lived in Dunedin in 1885.

Do you have their Dunedin address.

And what surname were the parents using at the time.

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Have you seen the ITM for the 1885 CARLSON/BIRDSEY marriage. If so, what was the groom's length of residence.

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Naturalisation date 13 May 1902

Have you seen the Memorial of Naturalisation. If so, did it mention a town/village of birth.

John Carlson, Auckland Date (received): 14 February 1902
Subject: Memorial for naturalisation.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=24918403

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In both the 1881 and 1893 electoral rolls there was a John CARLSON listed as living in Taita, which is not too far from Wellington. Not saying he's your man but, assuming he's not, he might be the man mentioned in the newspaper article to which you referred in your original post... which would mean your arrival year estimate of 1881 may well be out.

Just saying :-)

Regards
Beg

[minniehaha]

The death of Emma.........

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19430720.2.3&srpos=20&e=--1943---1943--10--11----2+tremain--

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19430721.2.3&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2emma+alice+eden--

[Married Joseph Tremain in 1911.]

Minniehaha.

[minniehaha]

Her burial details........

Last name   TREMAIN
First name   EMMA ALICE EDER
Age   75 Years
Occupation   Married
Service provided   Burial
Burial date   21/07/1943
Funeral director   WILSON
Cemetery   Karori
Section   PUBLIC2
Plot number   340 Y
Record number   34248


Minniehaha.

[minniehaha]

Emma's silver wedding.......

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19360215.2.5&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2joseph+tremain--


Minniehaha.

[jamcat95]

Hi
Looking for this family is proving a little difficult. Karolina's surname is the village/farm Yrjäs where she lived or was born. There is a Yrjäs in Nykarleby in the Swedish speaking part of Finland. There are a couple more dotted around Finland. There is also a Björnvik in Nykarleby too. The reason why I think it is Nykarleby is because I have found what I believe is Karl and Karolina's family grave:

http://web.genealogia.fi/asp/hautoja1d.asp?lang=se&code=124&id=172291

I will keep looking.


Ian

[Stephanie Campbell]

Hi Beg,

The Reason I state They were all at one point (1885) living in Dunedin was because I had seen on the marriage printout (and upon looking it won't be John's Parents, but just John himself), and Emma were 'currently residing' in Dunedin. It also shows that Dunedin was John Carlson's Usual Place of Residence. The Marriage was on 30th December 1885. On the printout it gives Johns Parents names as Bjornvik, or Biornvik (the writing is a little hard to tell. It also gives John's mother Carolina's maiden surname as Yrjas. The marriage printout is included in my first comment on page 1.

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I have not seen the Notice for intended Marriage, however, on the advice I was given it would contain less information. The only information I have assisting me with John's length of residence in New Zealand is a Papers Past Article.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP18891014.2.14&srpos=9&e=-------10--1-byDA---2John+Carlson--

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Naturalisation date 13 May 1902

I have requested a copy of the Naturalisation and Alien Registration Records, however, have not received any emails/correspondance back yet. When I receive it I will be eagerly looking for his town/village of birth, and if available the ship he arrived on.

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As I have no idea what port He arrived in, Wellington is a possibility. IT is not out of the question for in 1893 either, as later on Emma seems to have been in Napier and then Wellington after his Death. Although I do understand what you are saying about the possibility of it being 'another' John Carlson. I do know that he would have had to move from where he was born (as it states on the marriage printout Finland Russia) between 1862 his approx birth year and 1885 his year of marriage.

[Stephanie Campbell]

Hi
Looking for this family is proving a little difficult. Karolina's surname is the village/farm Yrjäs where she lived or was born. There is a Yrjäs in Nykarleby in the Swedish speaking part of Finland. There are a couple more dotted around Finland. There is also a Björnvik in Nykarleby too. The reason why I think it is Nykarleby is because I have found what I believe is Karl and Karolina's family grave:

http://web.genealogia.fi/asp/hautoja1d.asp?lang=se&code=124&id=172291

I will keep looking.


Ian

Thank You Ian

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi again...

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I asked for the parent's surname was because (as Ian pointed out) the surnames on the certificate are "farm names". There's often a good chance there would have been a patrynomic thrown in there too and I was thinking maybe the father Carl was using that in Dunedin. Might have given a clue to his origins but as it now seems the parents were not in Dunedin in 1885 (or possibly even in NZ) it looks like a bust :-)

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The reason I asked about the ITM was that a marriage certificate doesn't mention length of residence whereas an ITM does. It's often not all that helpful as the full description is something like "Length of Residence in the registration district where the marriage is going to take place and not the actual length of time the bride and groom have been in NZ" Having said that, if John got off the boat in Dunedin in 1870 and never left Dunedin till his marriage in 1885 the ITM would say "Length of Residence: 15 years" ... which would be really helpful to know.

One of the amazing things about Rootschat is that there are some very generous people kind enough to take photos on your behalf of ITM's or naturalisation papers (or anything else) when they visit the Archives. You may need to wait a week or two for your request to be filled but it's an awful lot cheaper than having Archives NZ charge you $50 an hour.

I would suggest you start a new thread entitled "Wellington Archives look-up please" and ask for photos of the ITM and the naturalisation papers.

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Have you seen the 1905 death certifcate for John CARLSON. Although death certifcates are often inaccurate "Length of Residence" is one of the columns, as is "Birthplace". Might be worth $20.

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Where did you get the ~1848 birth date for Carl BJORNVIK mentioned in your original post. It would make Carl ~14 when his son John was born in ~1862, which seems fairly young.

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Register of NZ Finns
http://maine.utu.fi/emregfree/nimihaku_e.php

You may have more luck than me getting the above database to work. I keep getting a 500 error even though the other databases work fine. I suspect if John is mentioned it will just be a note saying that he was naturalised in 1902 so definitely not worth 20 euro.

Regards
Beg