have got myself in a muddle, Machynlleth records

[malijibic]

Can anyone please help me make sense of these records.
1803 marriage for Margaret Davies, daughter of John Davies, husbandman and Judith his wife.
I have the image for this marriage.
Looked for baptism for Margaret but no luck. (Using Find mypast.)

So looked for Marriage, John and Judith.
Found transcript only
22May 1777 at Machynlleth
Judith Edward and John David by banns.

Found Baptism
(image)   Judith, daughter of Griffith and Margaret Edward  March 12, 1749

Looked for death for Judith
Burial at Machynlleth 
Image Judith Edward, wife of Rowland Oliver, aged 40, died May 14, 1789
age agrees with 1748 baptism. but not the husband I expected.

Looked for an Oliver marriage
Image  Rowland Oliver married, by licence, Judith Edward, otherwise Griffith of this parish spinster, widow daughter of Griffith Edward by Margaret his wife, aged 24 years on 18 Nov 1782. The spinster is crossed out on the record
 Her age for this marriage does not agree with the baptism or death records.

If anyone can help me make sense of all this, I would be very grateful.
Sorry for being long winded

[mazi]

Familysearch has a baptism 4 may 1781 for Margaret John, parents John David and Judith, in Darowen, not too far from Machynlleth, Familysearch seems to list names using the Welsh patronymic system in the 1700s, I do not know about FindMyPast.

Mike

[mazi]

Found the marriage eventually under Richard Oliver  , I just wonder if age 24 is a mistranscription for 34, I cannot view the image, nor, if they were both Welsh speakers, how 24 or 34 are pronounced in Welsh.

Mike

[malijibic]

The image has Rowland Oliver. Found his will, 1797, he had remarried and left money to his sons and daughters. The daughters are described as "by my now wife, Elizabeth Mills" So I went looking for the baptism of the younger son.
image
Ellis and Rowland, twin sons of Rowland Oliver, Farmer and Judith his wife, formerly Judith Edward of Isygarreg.
no mention of Rowland in the will, so went lookinb for burial
image
7/1/1786   Rowland son of Rowland Oliver.

Familysearch has not yet been willing to show me the baptism of Margaret John.  Sounds good as Margaret Davies was twenty two when she married in 1803.
Many thanks for reminding me about the patronymic naming system.
Thank you

[mazi]

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AMargaret~%20%2Bsurname%3AJohn~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AMontgomeryshire~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1740-1788~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3AJudith~

Have not learned to shrink link yet

Margaret John

Mike

[malijibic]

Thank you, did not think of using Montgomeryshire as the place name.  Findmypast accepts Powys.
I do not think that Darowen records are on Findmypast.  Will arrange a trip to the library to see if I can find burial(hopefully before 1782) for John David,
But if the Judith who married Rowland Oliver was John David's widow, would she not have been Judith David?
 

[mazi]

You would think so, wouldn't you, but as spinster is crossed out maybe there was a degree of confusion, with an English speaking incumbent and a Welsh speaking couple.

It may not be relevant but I holidayed on the Welsh coast almost 70 years ago and a lot of the older inhabitants, born in the late 1800s, had only Welsh and spoke no English at all.

Mike

[malijibic]

I can remember some people who would only speak Welsh in the village where I was brought up in North Wales,
Could Judith have used the Edward surname all her life?
Rowland Oliver's wife was named as Judith Edward on the burial register.
Thank you for your help.

[despair]

There is a will at NLW for John David of Cwmllowey Ucha,Darowen,dated 1781 in which he refers to his wife Judith,daughter Jane and other relatives.


Regards
Roger