William Gray (Grey) & Harriet Prior (Pryor)

[pflaagan]

I ordered the marriage cert. for William Grey & Harrit Prior, but it did not give the name of either father. They were married in Thrapston in 1841. Children born to them were Joe, abt 1840; Rhuben, abt. 1952; Amelia, abt. 1844; George Pryor, abt 1846; William John, abt. 1850; & Alfred, abt. 1852. William Gray must have died around 1852-53 because his widow married William Oliver. I have been trying to find them in the 1840 & 1850 census, but I have had no luck so far. If anyone comes across this family in either census, I would appreciate hearing from you.

[bedfordshire boy]

Thrapston is in Northamptonshire, so doesn't appear in the 1841 Hunts census set. You might also consider posting on the Northants board. So the member submission on the IGI was wrong when it stated that they married in Old Weston Hunts? What was the date of the marriage in 1841?

The absence of a father's name usually signifies illegitimacy, although it has been known for the bridegroom not to give a father's name if he knows that the bride was illegitimate, in order to save her possible embarrassment.

Since we last exchanged messages in September the 1861 has been indexed and is online.

RG9/981 folio 83
Ramsey, Hunts
William Oliver head marr 60 brick maker b Castor Northants
Harriet Oliver wife 38 b Winwick Northants
Pryor Gray son in law (=stepson) 14 b Alconbury Hunts
Amelia Gray dau in law (=step dau) 12 b Alconbury
William John Gray son in law 10 scholar b Alconbury
Alfred Gray son in law 8 scholar b Alconbury
Harriet Oliver dau 1 b Ramsey Hunts

Hoods Ferry, March, Cambs
Reuben Gray lodger unmarr 15 ag lab b Alconbury
in the household of James Driver 33 and family plus three other lodgers, all ag labs.

It is also the Alconbury 1851 that you need as the Greys' children were born there. Unfortunately it hasn't been released on CDRom, but perhaps someone reading this may have the Hunts FHS transcript. Alternatively there are people offering Alconbury look ups for 1851 on the Huntingdonshire look up exchange on http://members.tripod.com/AztecRose/huntingdon/hun.html

Regards

David

[pflaagan]

The marriage certificate for William Grey & Harriet Prior states the date of the marriage as 2nd Nov. 1841 at The ____Church in the Parish of Old Weston in the County of Huntingdon. C. Thornton, Curate. The names of the couple & their witnesses were followed by "his/her mark" with an "x' in front of each name.

I have found William & Harriet in the 1851 census where it lists his birth place as Well, Cambridgeshire, England, & his birth date as abt. 1816. Where could I write for a copy of his birth or baptism record?

Thank you for your help. Pat

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pat

Pre 1837 there are no separate birth records. At best the vicar may have noted the birth in the baptism entry in the parish register. All of Cambridgeshire baptisms 1801-37 have been transcribed and are on the Baptism Index on Cambs FHS website at
http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html

(I say all - all parish registers for the period indicated have been transcribed but I'm not sure about non-conformist baptisms).

However I cannot see a William Gray/Grey baptised 1816. The other problem is that I cannot find a parish in Cambridgeshire called Well, unless it's a hamlet forming part of a larger parish.

There's Barnwell, Burwell, Knapwell, Orwell, Outwell, Snailwell, Upwell, and Welney, but no Well on its own. And I don't see what else the 1851 census entry could be having looked at it. (But having looked again, and again, I see that the W of Well is nothing like the W of William or Winwick (Harriet's birthplace on the line beneath) and I wonder if it might be Upwell abbreviated to U'ell. Having said that the W does look like his lower case w of weston.)  I'm clutching at straws.

I must confess I'm struggling - William appears in 1851 with a birthplace in Cambs that is possibly incomplete, with no baptism anywhere in Cambs in the year he gives as his birth, with no father mentioned on his marriage cert so he may have been illegotimate, and he was dead before 1861 so we don't get a second bite at a census with a birthplace.

I don't suppose you've got lucky and one or other of the witnesses was a Gray?

Sorry this is all pretty negative

Regards

David

[mooncrystal]

Hi Pat,

Alconbury Weston parish records
27 April 1845
Joseph Gray of Weston son of William and Harriet, labourer
Reuben Gray of Weston son of William and Harriet, labourer

18 April 1847
Pryor Gray of Weston son of William and Harriet, labourer

11 June 1850
William John Gray of Weston son of William and Harriet, labourer

[mooncrystal]

I found this on the 1841 census for Broughton:

William Gray age 75  Ag lab  Born in county
Hannah Watson  age 65   Widow   born in county
HO 107/ 448/3

[pflaagan]

I have found Wells. It says it was created 1 July 1837. Sub-districts: Glastonbury; Wells. GRO volumes: X (1837-51); 5c (1852-1930). Registers now in Mendip district.

Does this mean that Wells was created from part of Glastonbury? Where is Mendip district?

William & Harriet's sons, George Pryor & William John, came to the USA & eventually settled in North Dakota. I have met some of their descendants, but they know nothing about William Grey (Gray). A daughter Amelia & her husband are said to have also come to the US (Ohio), but they didn't have any children so I have not started trying to find them.

Thank you for all your help. I wish I coud travel to England, but doubt if that will ever happen so those of you who are so kind to help myself & others are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Pat

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pat

But Wells is in Somerset on the opposite side of the country. As he gave his county of birth as Cambridgeshire, and the place as Well,  I'm pretty certain that it's not the Somerset Wells where he was born.

In 1841 there's a Wm Gray 25 ag lab Born in Hunts living with the Taylor family in Alconbury Weston, which may be him. The birth county conflicts with the 1851 though.

The only William Gray that I can see in either Cambs or Hunts at about the right time was baptised at Bythorn 20 Nov 1814, son of James and Sarah Gray. Looking at the map Bythorn is only 2 miles from Old Weston

I got excited there for a moment but then I looked at the 1841 and 1851 censuses and the Bythorn William was on both, so I think we can rule out him.

Which leaves us back at square one I'm afraid.

A possibility must be that if he really was illegitimate his mother may have married and he used her married name of Gray. So his baptism may have been under a different surname.

What were the names of the witnesses at their marriage?


Regards

David

[pflaagan]

Hi, David. That seems to take care of Well. The names of the witnesses were Abraham Taylor & Naomi Prior. In the IGI Naomi & Harriet were twins born or christened 21 Oct 1823 at Winwick; their parents were John Prior & Sophia Parnell. Harriet married William Grey 2 Nov 1841 in the parish church of Old Weston. On the marriage cert. it gives their ages as "of full age" & neither father is given. The IGI lists William's birth as about 1816 of Old Weston, Huntingdon. Since all these people on the marriage certificate had to place an "x" by their name, I assume they were illiterate so I can see how easy it must have been to have the wrong information on any census.

In any case, I think you may have found him with the Taylor family!
I have been told that William's oldest son, Joe, changed his name to Taylor because he wanted to join the military & had been rejected under his own name at one place so tried again with a different name at another place & was accepted.

By the time William & Harriet's son, Rhuben, married Sarah Richardson they must have come up in the world because when their son, Alfred (my grandfather) married my grandmother (Alice Ann Carter), Sarah was unhappy because he married someone "below his class". If William (her father-in-law)was both illegitimate & illiterate, she must have suffered from a short memory.

After all that, where would you suggest I should I try for a birth certificate?

Thanks for all your help.
Sincerely,
Pat