Author Topic: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?  (Read 1961 times)

Online clairec666

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Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« on: Wednesday 13 April 16 12:37 BST (UK) »
A conundrum has arisen!

I'm looking at the children of Thomas and Mary Pardoe baptised in Ombersley in the late 1700s. The parents could be Thomas Pardoe and Mary Cook married 5/6/1781 Ombersley.
John 23/6/1782
Mary 22/1/1786
Elizabeth 15/6/1788 (possibly my ancestor - married William Woodward)
Sarah 6/6/1790
Thomas 17/6/1792
William 4/5/1794
Hannah 23/8/1801
Ann 9/5/1803
Of course, the parents might not be the same Thomas and Mary :)

Looking at Hannah born about 1801 - there is a marriage to George Dainty in Ombersley in 1830, and in the census her ages are given as 40, 50, 60, 70, birthplace Ombersley, so I thought it likely that it was the right Hannah Pardoe.

Now I've found some marriages of Pardoes at St Clement Worcester. One of these is Ann Pardoe to John Snow - looking at censuses, it seems to be the Ann Pardoe baptised in 1803. Another is Hannah Pardoe to Jeremiah Baker. Children from this marriage are baptised in Ombersley, and there is a burial of Hannah Baker in Ombersley in 1833, and she is the right age for the Hannah Pardoe baptised in 1801.

So are there in fact two Hannah Pardoes born in about 1801, and have I been tracing the wrong one?

Jeremiah and Hannah Baker have a son William baptised in Ombersley in 1830. In 1841 he is probably living in Ombersley with Thomas Pardoe age 85, John Pardoe age 55, and Mary Morris age 55. This could be Hannah's parents and siblings (there is a marriage in Ombersley of Mary Pardoe to John Morris). In 1851 and 1861 he is with his "uncle" Richard Pardoe born about 1797 Ombersley, yet I can't find a baptism of Richard Pardoe in Ombersley at the right time.

I enjoy disentangling families like this, but I may need some help with this one!

P.S. My information comes from baptisms and marriages on Familysearch, and the National Burial Index on Findmypast :)
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Offline Kafw

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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 18 August 24 12:13 BST (UK) »
Regarding your post of Wednesday 13 April 2016, I cannot help much about multiple Hannah's but I noticed your apparent descent from the Elizabeth Pardoe who married William Woodward (I assume from that marriage). If so you may be a second, third, fourth or fifth cousin twice removed (if that's right).

My main interest, in picking up the post, was in establishing which Elizabeth. There were two Elizabeth Pardoes born in Ombesley about the right time. One to Thomas (A cordwainer, I think) & Mary and one to  James and Elizabeth (farmers who owned their land). There were other Elizabeth Pardoes in neighbouring villages which caused further confusion. The witnesses at the wedding were Thomas and Sarah whom I took to be siblings. I was, myself, unable to find a relevant 'Sarah'.  Your post indicates Thomas and Sarah were younger siblings and that the Elizabeth who married William was the daughter of Thomas & Mary. I will look for the baptism documents which confirm this. I always thought that a taylor was more likely to marry into cordwainers. It remains to track the family back a few generations if you have not already done so and find a link between the various Pardoes who seem to vary in status from minor gentry to farm labourers.

I do not know, Claire, where you fit on the family tree but it may be of interest that my late uncle Les's father-in-law (through first wife Eve) was a signalman (Albert Edward Tyrrell). Les has two great-granddaughters  that I know of, but the names are different from yours and they are maybe a year or two younger.

It may be worth going through an abbreviated version of what I know of the family origins. William (the taylor) was baptised in Earls Croome where I think his father Thomas (born in Wick) may have been a toll-gate keeper. William had three sons of which John (a pub landlord) who, it seems, had no children, Thomas ( jeweller & watchmaker) who had one daughter Mabel who never married and William Pardo (butcher). He had, I think, two daughters, Ann and Elizabeth of which one (married name Fraser) became his housekeeper.  Her own daughter was housekeeper for her uncle Thomas. William Pardo living in Chaddesley Corbett had three sons of which I believe the eldest two, George Henry and William, each had a daughter a bit  later in life. John Woodward living in Lambeth  had one son, my grandfather, John William and two daughters Edith and Mabel who both married (all now long deceased).

It may also be of interest that I know of living descendants of John William living  in Ireland, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Egypt, Ghana, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. I don't know if any of this helps you but hope perhaps you have information that helps me.

Offline bevj

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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 18 August 24 21:31 BST (UK) »
Hello
I have Pardoes of Ombersley in my tree but they are a little earlier than the ones mentioned here and I can't see a connection yet (though there's sure to be one).
William Pardoe (1720-1776) marries Elizabeth Parker in Worcester in 1745 and I have found the folliowing children all born in Ombersley:
Mary  1746
John  1748
William  1750
Elizabeth  1753
Ann  1759 (m. Edward Etheridge)
Sarah  1762

As you see, I haven't got a Thomas or a James though there is a suspicious gap between the births of Elizabeth and Ann.
Do any of these names ring a bell?

Bev
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Offline Kafw

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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 20 August 24 10:08 BST (UK) »
Hello Bev

Thanks for that. This has prompted me to look at my notes on Pardoes made over a year ago. They are somewhat confused and, therefore, not necessarily accurate. It was before I had learnt that the best way to use 'ancestry' was as a key to source documents and realised that a document might still exist but may not have been transcribed.

There were two Pardoes, James and John, who were farmers in a trade list in 1820. The only Pardoe in the equivalent 1890 list was a shoemaker. I believe that were two separate farmhouses around Ombersley apparently occupied by Pardoes which are now listed buildings. The John in your list of siblings would be 72 at that time.

A Thomas Pardoe was baptised on 14th November 1764 in Ombersley, Worcester.  ( To add to the confusion a Thomas Pardoe was also baptised 24 Jun 1763 at Ombersley, Worcester also with father, Thomas Pardoe and mother Letithea. Did the first child die? Only too frequent in 18C.) There is also a record of a Thomas Pardoe, a Master Cordwainer of Ombersley accepting an apprentice in 1785. I think this precludes Thomas's parent being William. Mary Cook's father is most likely Mark Cook from elsewhere in Worcestershire.

  Thomas Pardoe and Mary Cook married on 5th. June 1781 in Ombersley. Thomas Pardoe and Mary registered the birth of child Thomas on 17 th June 1792. A Thomas Pardoe's body was buried on 7 Sep 1823 in Ombersley, Worcester( but a Thomas Pardoe also appeared in a  Census living in Omberley aged 85). Regarding Elizabeth Pardoe's (later Woodward) siblings, I seem to have mixed up two families possibly by referring to another family tree but they would be Sarah (1790), William (1793), Thomas 1794, Mary (1807-1891) and Anne (1808).

 In 1851 Thomas Pardoe Age: 57 (born abt 1794 in  Ombersley, Worcestershire) living with his wife Hannah Pardoe 61 was a shoe maker and lived in 112 The Rocks (Hamlet) Ombersley, Worcestershire. Could this be the other Hannah for which ClaireC666. was searching? Other residents were Richard Pardoe aged 23, Eizabeth Pardoe aged 21 and Peter Scott aged 25. Thomas has evidently taken up his father's profession  of cordwainer but chosen the more modern title of shoe maker.

The Elizabeth Pardoe christened in 1793 was the daughter of James Pardoe and Elizabeth (Nee Dorrell). It is here that I get a bit more muddled but I think James's father was Phillip (1740 to 1788) arried to  Mary (Nee Field 1744 to 1768).

 In the 18 C this James & Elizabeth Pardoe probably lived in Comhampton hamlet possibly at Comhampton Farmhouse. In 1841  Elizabeth Pardon aged 73 who was presumably James Pardoe's widow and their children Littilia Pardon aged 46, James Pardon aged 35, Ann M Pardon 30, William Pardon 25, Charles Pardon aged 20 were listed as farmers.  A Cook family lived nearby. In 1851 Elizabeth Pardoe the widow was now listed as a landed proprietor which one assumes means they owned the land they were farming. The three sons James, William and Charles were farming 45 acres each and employing labourers. In 1861 their mother was still alive and James was farming 227 acres and employing 3 labourers possibly at a different location. (I have clearly copied the 'Pardon' from the transcription but they certainly the same family.

In addition to James's & Thomas's family there was a third Pardoe family in Ombersley whose father was Richard in the early 19C. I guess I will try to link them all back but am primarily interested in the Woodward ancestors through Thomas & Mary.

Keith


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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 12 July 25 11:58 BST (UK) »
Hello - only just seen this message after not looking at the forum for a few years!

I would be interested to know how we are related to each other. I am still unsure of the parents of my Elizabeth Pardoe. She married William Woodward in 1819. I am descended from their daughter Elizabeth Woodward, who married Henry William Frazer in 1852.
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Offline Kafw

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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 July 25 10:51 BST (UK) »
Hello Claire
I am now satisfied on the basis of the 1819 marriage records matching birth records of siblings that William married the Elizabeth Pardoe who was the daughter of the cordwainer. There is always the possibility that they were connected with one of the farming families which I hope to investigate. i.e Did they make enough money out of shoes to buy a farm or did a younger son of a farmer go into making shoes.

In relationships William the taylor was my Great, great, great grandfather. :-  His 2 nd son was William Pardo Woodward (butcher) whose 3rd son was John Woodward (Saddler & Harness Maker) whose only son John (Dairy Worker) whose 3 rd son was Alan Woodward (Sales Manager) whose only son was me (IT retired). 2 comments
1  There was a tendency in the family to start there own business but not inherit their father's and think I can understand why they would not.
2   Since the older sons seem only to have only daughters or granddaughters, I seem to be the main heir except, of course, that there is no fortune or great estate to inherit. Still, they did their best.

I did go further back a bit further. William's parents Thomas & Elizabeth from Earls Croome were married in St. Peters, Little Comberton, Worcestershire in 1790 and Thomas's parents were John and Susanna.

Keith

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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 21 July 25 15:13 BST (UK) »
Hi Keith
We are definitely distant cousins! My connection is mostly down the female line, so there have been lots of surname changes along the way, and the name Woodward wasn't even known by any of my living relatives until I started researching the family tree. Our Worcestershire connections died out long ago too.
I am descended from Elizabeth Woodward who married Henry William Frazer, and can tell you more about their family if you need any gaps filling in. My 2x great grandmother Fanny Elizabeth Frazer is living with her grandfather William Woodward in 1861. I have some photos of her from later in life (luckily my family is really good at hanging on to old photos and other bits and bobs!) She died in Eastbourne in 1937.

I also found the marriage in Little Comberton but wasn't confident enough to add it to my tree yet, so am investigating further
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Offline Kafw

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Re: Confused by Pardoe family of Ombersley - were there two Hannahs?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 August 25 13:08 BST (UK) »
Hello Claire

I think we are probably 4 th cousins once removed although I don't understand what this 'removed' business means. Your great great grandmother would have been first cousin to my great grandfather.

I also had very little information about the Woodward side of the family before I started researching during the Covid epidemic. On the maternal side, my great grandfather was born in Newport Pagnell nearby and the births and deaths for that period have been microfilmed but not transcribed for that period so I am ploughing through records in Milton  Keynes library. His mother's father left a will accessible online and a tombstone and pub which exist but have both been moved.

Back to the Woodwards, the sequence of locations were Ombersley - William Woodward (Tailor); Chaddesley Corbett (Worcs) - William Pardo Woodward (Butcher); Lambeth - John Woodward (saddler & harness maker); Oxford - John William Woodward. I still do not know why the family went to Oxford (certainly nothing to do with the university).  In the 1921 census, my grandfather was unemployed and they were living in an area of Oxford which was probably the most impoverished (& notorious ) area in central Oxford at the time.

The link to Little Comberton is through William's place of birth in the 1861 census given as Earls Croome. In the earlier census it was given as Evesham but I have guessed that this is indicative of the area whereas Earls Croome is very specific and matches an actual baptism. I have visited both villages. The church in Little Comberton is quite interesting.  There is also a sister Anne in the Earls Croome family. The bridegroom in the Little Comberton wedding gives his home parish as Earls Croome. The difficulty with these connection is searching for an alternative that fits allowing for possible mis-spellings in order to eliminate other possibilities.
 
Another 1st cousin to both Fanny Elizabeth Frazer & to William Pardo Woodward was Mabel Woodward.  William apparently had a sister Anne whose 2 nd. husband had a watchmaker's and jeweller's shop in Worcester.   It seems that William's youngest son, Thomas worked in the business and took it over when they both died. He married the daughter of a saddler and harness maker whose business was nearby. Their first child was Mabel. It seems that his wife and second child died in childbirth or soon after. Thomas continued working in the business and it seems that his niece surname Frazer (Possibly  your great, great grandmother Fanny Elizabeth (26)  or her sister Kate(25) ) was his housekeeper. After he died leaving £1,800 (equivalent to £240,000 in 2020 money) his daughter joined her grandfather's household adopting the Carter name and going to Scotland with him but died in Middlesex unmarried.  My grandfather's sister was also named Mabel which I don't think was a coincidence.

There are several puzzles. According to the 1841 census William had a daughter Anne. What happened to her? There was also an Elizabeth Morris in the 1841 census. Was she related? An Emily Woodward was housekeeper in the 1861census. Is there another daughter or is it Elizabeth your 3Xgreat grandmother misnamed by the census collector? I would, of course, be interested in any information on the Frazer link.

Sorry for the delay in responding. We have had grandsons to stay.

Keith

Offline bevj

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I've followed this thread with great interest but so far can't find the connection with my own Pardoes of Ombersley.  There must be one somewhere waiting to be uncovered!
I definitely have no Woodwards in my tree.
I'll keep looking.
Thanks for all the information which will be there if ever found to be relevant to my lot.
Bev.
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