Frances Mathew born 1771 in Edingale and her daughter Phoebe

[BumbleB]

Just realised that that 1745 baptism can't be the right one - that would make him only 15/16 when he married Elizabeth in 1761.  Sorry 

[Aks]

Thank you Trish and BumbleB. I've been trying to recall exactly what I know as opposed to what I surmise. From what I originally received through family connections and from web sources, Phoebe Farnell was the daughter of Martin Farnell, who lived in Coton-in-the-Elms from 1750 to 1815, and Frances Mathews, probably born in Edingale, with Phoebe being born around 1796, though I have no direct evidence for this. Martin seems to have been quite a prominent figure, but at some point seems to have gone bankrupt and it was from his will that I discovered that Phoebe was not actually his daughter, whereas the family thought we were descended from him.

I have the record of the marriage of Martin Farnell to Frances Mathew on 17 march 1805 in Lullington, so the information about Frances seems basically to check out.

Therefore, although Phoebe is listed as Phoebe Farnell at her marriage, she presumably must have been born Phoebe Mathew(s) and assumed the name Farnell after her mother's marriage to Martin.

Mathew(s) was either Frances' married name, in which case there should be a marriage of a Frances someone to a someone Mathew(s) in or around Edingale probably before 1796, or Mathew(s) was her maiden name and Phoebe was illegitimate.

As you correctly point out, Trish, Phoebe seems to have died in 1835 and so is not to be found on any censuses, which would have been a great help otherwise.

Having written all this to get my thoughts clear (and allow anyone to pick holes in my reasoning), I will now go back and look at what you kindly reported!

[Aks]

Thank you for all the details of the Matthew family which are very useful.

I do not understand at the moment how Francis or Frances MATTHORN could have become Frances MATHEW at the time of her marriage to Martin Farnell. Or do you think this is a transcription error?

There appears to be a record of Martin Farnell's marriage in 1805 in Derbyshire on FindMyPast. Would this tell us whether Frances had previously been married or not, or would I have to apply to the record office to get the marriage licence?

Thanks,

Alan

[BumbleB]

The FindMyPast marriage entry for Martin Farnell in 1805 is merely a copy of the transcription made by Family Search.  I think you need to obtain a copy of the ORIGINAL parish register entry, probably from the Records Office.  The transcription does not say whether the marriage was by Banns or by licence.

[Aks]

Thank you, BumbleB.

Why do you say that the Licence for the marriage of George Mathews and Elizabeth Batt doesn't seem to have survived?

Would there be no point then in my requesting it from Lichfield?

(Their minimum price is for 2 marriage licences!)

Thanks,

Alan

[BumbleB]

Re the marriage licence - the surviving Bonds and Allegations for the Diocese of Lichfield - held at Lichfield - are available to view on FindMyPast - there is no entry for George Matthews in 1761.

[BumbleB]

BUT the bond and allegation for Martin Farnell have survived.

He was aged 21 and upwards, a bachelor farmer of the parish of Lullington, and married Frances Mathews, a spinster, also of the parish of Lullington.  The Bond is dated 4 February 1805.

[Aks]

Gosh, thank you so much, BumbleB.

I'm sorry to ask possibly stupid questions, but if Frances Mathews was a spinster when she married Martin Farnell and (according to Martin's will) she previously had a daughter, Phoebe, then this would appear to confirm that Frances was not previously married, that Phoebe was illegitimate and that Mathews was Frances' maiden name. Does that sound reasonable?

[BumbleB]

That would be my interpretation, also.