Maryanne Devine of Gresford now

[sarah]

Hi Nicholsonmike,

Your first post has been marked copyright for someone with a different names - this looks to be copyright material so it will be removed so we do not break the copyright message.

Regards

Sarah

[Nicholsonmike]

Hi Nicholsonmike,

Your first post has been marked copyright for someone with a different names - this looks to be copyright material so it will be removed so we do not break the copyright message.

Regards

Sarah

Hi Sarah,
Thankyou for your vigilance!
I am the copyright owner and grant permission.
That is my correct name on the copyright.
Will this suffice to permit sharing this information?
Regards
Michael B. Pyne

Mary Ann Devine (subject of the report) is my maternal great great grandmother

[poeticgardener]

Hi Nicholsonmike
Thanks for sharing the info on Mary Ann. She is my great grandmother through Charles Edler.
I was wondering if you had any photos of her or her other children? I only have one of her as quite an old woman.
Also wondering if you have any information about Mary Ann's mother Deborah beyond her arrival in Australia, marriage and death?
Thanks

[Nicholsonmike]

This may be Mary Ann in 1862/1863:

REFUSING TO MAINTAIN AN ILLEGITIMATE CHILD - John Carroll was summoned before the bench at West Maitland yesterday, to answer to the summons of Mary Ann Devine, who charged him with refusing to maintain his illegitimate child.  Mr. Mullen appeared for the plaintiff, and Mr. Brennan for defendant. M. A. Devine said the information was true. John Carroll is a painter and glazier, and earns £2 per week. The child was born 14th October last.  Joseph Trappell, groom to Dr. Liddell knew plaintiff, who had been in the same service.  Knew defendant, who came to the kitchen one Saturday about six months ago, and took her out for a walk. It was late when she came home - about half-past ten. She came in by herself. The case was postponed until Thursday, to allow the plaintiff time to procure some more witnesses.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18692278

REFUSING TO OBEY A MAINTENANCE ORDER - John Carroll was summoned by Mary Ann Devine, and appeared before tho bench at West Maitland, on Thursday, to answer a charge of neglecting to pay the amount of maintenance ordered by the bench some time back, towards the support of his illegitimate offspring. The arrears (23 weeks) were paid up, and the complainant did not appear.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18701559

This is probably the child:

9684/1862
DEVINE, EDWARD
Mother: MARY
Father: Not named
MAITLAND

Debra 

Mary Ann called herself Maria Carrol on the Birth Registration of her first born child. She mothered him for at least the first two years of his life. I think she may have been forced to put him in an orphanage by her husband, James Robertson. I guess the child grew up having been told that his mother died. It must have haunted her because she placed a personal notice in the Catholic Weekly 35 years later for an entire year, which I don't believe he saw as he was married and living in Brisbane.
Edward James Carrol (1862–1942): Married Louisa Jane Boldero.
•     The Catholic Press (Sydney, NSW : 1895 - 1942) Sat 30 Jan 1897  Page 12  Advertising
“IF this should meet the eye of EDWARD JAMES CARROL, the son of John Warren Carrol, junior, your mother is alive and wishes to hear from you. This is my address:--M. EDLER, President-avenue, Kogarah, Sydney, NSW. Maiden name, Mary Devine.”

[Nicholsonmike]

Hi Nicholsonmike
Thanks for sharing the info on Mary Ann. She is my great grandmother through Charles Edler.
I was wondering if you had any photos of her or her other children? I only have one of her as quite an old woman.
Also wondering if you have any information about Mary Ann's mother Deborah beyond her arrival in Australia, marriage and death?
Thanks

Charles Edward Emil certainly lived a long life! He was a younger brother of my Great Grandmother, Mary M Devine (on Birth Registration) b. Sep 2 1869 John St, Haymarket, Sydney, NSW. She would have been known as Mary (Annie) Matilda Edler throughout her life. I have a magnificent large portrait painting of her that I remember hanging in my grandmother's (Elsie Matida Schlyder)  bedroom when I was an infant. It was as far back as I knew until I started my exhaustive research a few years ago.

I have taken several DNA tests and the results confirm that Edward Emil Edler was indeed the father of Annie despite the fact that her parents did not marry until 1871. I suspect that was to avoid the possibility of bigamy if the whereabouts of  MaryAnn's husband (James Robinson) who had deserted  her was unknown.
I do have some other photos. I have several trees online - Ancestry and MyHeritage amongst others - but my main tree is offline.
I certainly do have more details than vital records and have taken a familytreeDNA full mitochondrial test to try and trace my mother's mother's mother etc back further than Deborah Lennard. Have you taken any DNA tests?? The more of us who do it the greater the chance we have of joining the dots!
There is a very sad story regarding your Charles Edward Emil and a young lady who was madly in love with him and when he called it off she took her life in a quite horiffic way! (Trove)

Perhaps you are Carolyn Monica??
My Grandmother, Elsie Matilda Schlyder married Alexander Rosner, parents of my mother, Dorothy Rosner.
Best regards
Michael Pyne

[Nicholsonmike]

Hi Carol


Edvard Emil Edler is also my GGrandfather his daughter Emma Josephine is my grandmother

Hi malal,

I have provided the info re Mary Ann's first born child in previous replies but this is a copy of the text
from the Personal notice she placed in the paper for 12 months thirty five years later!

•     The Catholic Press (Sydney, NSW : 1895 - 1942) Sat 30 Jan 1897  Page 12  Advertising
“IF this should meet the eye of EDWARD JAMES CARROL, the son of John Warren Carrol, junior, your mother is alive and wishes to hear from you. This is my address:--M. EDLER, President-avenue, Kogarah, Sydney, NSW. Maiden name, Mary Devine.”

[Nicholsonmike]

Family of Matthew DEVINE and Deborah LENNARD (Leonard)
   
   Husband:  Matthew DEVINE (1806-1889)
   Wife: Deborah LENNARD (1816-1893)
   Children:
1.   Jane DEVINE (1838-1911)
2.   Mary Ann DEVINE (1840-1918)
3.   Eliza DEVINE (1841-1868)
4.   John DEVINE (1842-1934)
5.   Matthew DEVINE (1843-1843)
6.   Sarah DEVINE (1845-1927)
7.   Harriet (Annie) DEVINE (1846-1926)
8.   Charlotte DEVINE (1848-1929)
9.   Charles DEVINE (1848-bef1856)
10.   Matthew DEVINE (1851-1932)
11.   Susan (Susanna) DEVINE (1853-1941)
12.   Thomas DEVINE (1856-1932)
13.   Edward DEVINE (1858-1940)
14.   James DEVINE (1861-1927)

[poeticgardener]

Hi Michael
Yes I am Carolyn and it is fascinating to find out that there was yet another child for Mary Ann. She certainly had a complicated early life and then to lose 2 children, Maria and Francis, must have been soul destroying. Francis is buried in the graveyard at St Peter's Anglican Church at Tempe. I have the grave position but it is unmarked.
I did know of Charles' broken engagement and the terrible consequences of it although it was never spoken of in my family. Totally understandable.
My two brothers and I have done Ancestry DNA so hopefully one day we will crack Deborah's origins more thoroughly. Her arrival in Australia is covered in Elizabeth Rushen's book Colonial Duchesses and gives a little bit of her time when she first came to Sydney.
I would love to see some of the photos you have if you are willing to share them.
Carol
 

[Nicholsonmike]

Hi Carolyn,

I don't have any problem sharing our family photos - which were passed on to me by other cousins. I will get back to you when I have put something together.
In case you are wondering what our relationship is, we are 2nd cousins once removed.
I haved traced Edward Emil Edler's (shipping) movements extensively and also the Edler Family Tree.
I see you were looking for info on Frans Edvard Edler b. 16 Dec 1814 Skeppsholm, Parish, Stockholm, Stockholm, Sweden d. abt. 1860 possibly at sea. married Maria Lovisa Stenström. His father was Gustaf Edler b. 4 Apr 1788 d.31 Dec according to Gustaf Edler's death record he was found in the sea on 31 Dec 1827. I have tracked  our Edward Emils's siblings and have an extensive US branch.

Will talk more when I am free.

Michael