What could my g-g-g-g-grandfather have been?? Photo attached

[Rod In Sussex]

This may be a bit wide of the mark, but here is another thought.

In the 1840s a James Ingram DD (Doctor of Divinity) was President of Trinity College Oxford. If this was a reasonable well to do family, could this Ingram be a relative? Is it possible that the picture is of a respected Uncle for example? The picture is the kind of thing that would not be thrown away and the identity of the original could become clouded over the years ("that's grandad's brother" a generation away is recalled as "that's grandad")

Just a thought, but it opens up more options and issues!

Good luck

Rod

[PrueM]

Thanks all of you for your wonderful help and great suggestions.   

I think the conclusions I can now draw are:

1.  This is unlikely to be the father of my 3xg-grandfather, but more likely a brother.  This is based on the fact that I believe (thanks to Roger Vaughan's great website!! http://www.rogerco.freeserve.co.uk/)  the engraving (which this is a photographic copy of) was in turn done as a copy of a photograph - if this was my 4xg-grandfather, he  would have to have been at least 70 when the photo was taken (considering when photography became widely available) and the fellow in the picture is not that old.

2.  The person in the picture was most probably a man of learning, and/or a member of the clergy or a minister of religion such as Methodism.

3.  The person was important enough to have an engraved portrait done, probably for inclusion in a book or pamphlet of some kind (explaining the seam which runs through the book in the picture).

Other than that...no definitive conclusions!  But I have come a long way to understanding this picture, and it's all thanks to my Rootschat friends, so consider yourselves well and truly thanked! 

Prue 

[jinks]

The only engraving of my ancestors I have come
across was Thomas Mercer of Lee house(I will have to say whether the portrait is actually him is in dispute)

Though Thomas was Catholic he was a religious
man  the founder of a Catholic Church. i.e. He granted land for the church to be built.

Jinks.

[teddybear1843]

Just a couple of thoughts;

If it is an engraving from a book it would not have a binder's mark on it in the photograph bit. They were bound as a page, not folded, unless they were too big (maps or panoramas etc).

Have you not found his will?  This could well give you the information you require.

It is very unlikely that the photograph from which the engraving was taken from was taken before 1860, so the subject ought to be 70 if he is who you think. 

Have you compared the handwriting on the back of this one with the others you have mentioned?  Is it the same hand?

Finally, why not start again, putting down all you know about the man in question and researching him first.  Putting more flesh on him may well help in finding more about the photo as an aside.  Dont waste time with ifs buts and maybes.  Research is the key!

Best wishes.


Teddybear

[smuckerooney]

I can't remember what entry it was but a post to you mentioned the possibility of two rings on the left hand (my vote goes for that)..the wedding and pinkie fingers respectively.  I'm just a farm boy so I'm afraid I'm not too up to date with fashion although we do turn a pretty ankle in mid calf length wellies.

When did the fashion for the pinkie ring come in?  Did it have any particular significance as opposed to today, and was there a section of society's sub-culture that wore it?

I personally believe it was a BIG statement to be making at the time.

Just a thought while walking the hogs.

Rog

[PrueM]

Thanks Rog, you might be onto something there...maybe walking in all that fertile mud is making your brain grow!! 

I will do some research into the fashion of ring-wearing for gents, and see what I can fathom.

Prue

[Rena]

Hi,
The book is probably his personal pocket book of the "Daily Light", which was a devotional text book, each page gave a chapter of the bible, e.g. "The Spirit Helpeth Our Infirmities".. the Lord is my shepherd ROM.8.26. His being able to read shows his parents must have had money to be able to send him to school after the age of 10 or 12 yrs old. The ring on the little finger should be a signet ring given by parents when a son reaches his majority. which nowadays would be 18th birthday but used to be 21 in the 20th century and 25 in the 19th century.  The jacket is of far better quality than any of my family wore in photographs.
Rena

[PrueM]

Wow, thanks Rena!  I had no idea about the signet ring, and our man is definitely over 21  so that would make sense.  Can I ask what made you think of that particular book, and whether you think it would be of significance to his profession, or just a prop for the photo?

Thank you! 

Prue

[Rena]

Hi Prue,
I'm looking at a similar pocket book which was passed down through my husband's line.   Generally, it's not significant to his profession, but shows that he (and probably his family) were deeply religious people.  I don't think a photographic prop would be as 'thumbed through'.  The other portrait told a story through the very fashionable clothes the man was wearing - "look at me - I'm a successful man".  By the way - the 'stitches'  going up through the portrait look like a walking cane to me.  My grandfather had 6 canes of varying thicknesses & designs for all seasons and reasons.
If you think this man studied theology/divinity at a university (such as Edinburgh Uni) have you thought the ring might be a college ring?

Cheers,
Rena
=
 
Wow, thanks Rena!  I had no idea about the signet ring, and our man is definitely over 21  so that would make sense.  Can I ask what made you think of that particular book, and whether you think it would be of significance to his profession, or just a prop for the photo?

Thank you! 

Prue