Edith Holmes - Matlock Area - Puzzle

[Harold1066]

I'm looking for information regarding the following person:

Edith HOLMES - who claims to be 21 when she married iin April 1919 - Therefore birth year about 1897 or 1898.

I have a copy of her marriage certificate:

 - groom was Charles Ernest TWIGG - age: 21 - Motor Engineer - living in Bakewell Road, Matlock son of Charles William Twigg - Butcher.

THe only details Edith gives is that she is 21 - a spinster - living at Smedley's Hydro, Matlock where she is a Hydro Waitress - no details of her father.   

Looking in the 1911 census the best match I can find is:

Edith Holmes - age: 13 - living as a Niece in the houshold of John Woodhouse in Matlock

at the same address are:

    John's wife: Edith
    John's Nephew: Herbert Holmes  (who I'm pretty certain is Agne's brother - see later)

(Ref: Class: RG14; Piece: 21206 - Household Schedule: 135)

The same household appears in the 1901 census - but Herbert & Edith have been given the name WOODHOUSE (via dittos) and they are Boarders rather than Nephew & Neice. 

(Ref: Class: RG13; Piece: 3266; Folio: 111; Page: 57)

On "familysearch" I can find a baptism entry for Herbert Holmes - the details are:

Birth: 14 November 1894
Date of Christening: 4 November 1896
Place: Primitive Methodist, Matlock Circuit, Derbyshire
Parents: Herbert & Agnes Holmes.

I can't find a baptism entry for Edith - so was wondering if somebody could look to see if there is an entry that has not been transcribed yet.

I  believe I have found the marriage of Herbert Holmes & Agnes - in Manchester dated: 1 Nov 1893 - where Agnes is listed as Sarah Agnes Woodhouse - daughter of Henry Woodhouse (Cab driver)   

I have the baptism of Sarah Agnes in Matlock - 28 Jul 1865 daughter of Henry & Hannah Woodhouse.   

In 1871 and 1881 census when Sarah Agnes is with her parents in these she is listed as Agnes.

In 1891 Census she is living as a servant and is using the name "Sarah Agnes".

John Woodhouse who Agnes & Herbert are with in 1901/1911 census is also the son of Henry & Hannah Woodhouse - which would make him the brother of Sarah Agnes and hence the children's uncle as per the 1911 census.

I don't appear to be able to find Herbert & (Sarah) Agnes Holmes in either 1901 or 1911 census. 

Initials thoughts were that both parents had died by the time of the 1901 census and the children were brought up by their Uncle & Aunt, and Edith being less than 3 at the time  never know her father so could not name him on her marriage certificate.

However Herbert appears to have died whilst fighiting in WWI - and in the "UK - Army Registers of Soldier's Effects" his Mother Agnes is listed as the reciepiant of the monies owed him, therefore she must have still be alive up to 11 Jan 1921.   

So couple of things I'm trying to establish:

Baptism of Edith Holmes - that gives her a birth year in the years 1897 or 1898.- Probably a methodist but not discounting anything.

Any suggestions on where to go to try and sort out  why the children appear to be living with an Uncle & Aunt in both 1901 and 1911 census.

Regards & Thanks in advance.

Kevin

[CaroleW]

From freebmd

Births June qtr 1898   
Edith   Holmes     Bakewell    7b   811

If she didn't name a father when she married - it looks as though she was illegitimate

Buying a copy of her birth cert could solve the problem

[Harold1066]

Hi CaroleW.

As you say Birth certificate may be the answer.

However there are 4 Edith Holmes registered in the Bakewell district in the period 1897 - 1899

   Two in  1898 (Apr/Jun and Oct/Dec)

   Two more in 1899 (Jan/Mar and Jul/Sept).

Given she may have exaggrated her age on marriage all 4 are possibilities and at roughly £10 a pop was hoping a baptism would narrow the field down a bit, ideally a baptism with a birth date as per Herbert's would be best.

Trouble I have if she's illegitimate with the surname HOLMES I can't relate her to the one in 1911 and 1901 census therefore the field widens even further. Since from GRO Marriage Index:

John Woodstock's wife's maiden name appears to be Cantello.  Marriage entry is:

1895 - Jul/Sept - Derby - Vol: 7b Page: 885

People listed with this reference are:

Edith Cantello
Charles Jowett
Annie Lydia Westran
John Woodhouse

Therefore she's cann't be a illegimate child from a sibling of either John or Edith.  And its funny that Herbert is legitimate, know this because of his baptism and hes in the same family.

It  all makes sense if her parents are Herbet & Agnes (nee Woodstock) Holmes.

Should have possibly included the above marriage details and the Birth Registration infromatiom in my original message - but thought it was getting long as it was.


Thanks for your quick response.

Kevin

[rosie99]

I am sorry if I have missed it but who were the witnesses to Edith's marriage

[suzard]

I'm looking for information regarding the following person:

Edith HOLMES - who claims to be 21 when she married iin April 1919 - Therefore birth year about 1897 or 1898.

I have a copy of her marriage certificate:

 - groom was Charles Ernest TWIGG - age: 21 - Motor Engineer - living in Bakewell Road, Matlock son of Charles William Twigg - Butcher.

THe only details Edith gives is that she is 21 - a spinster - living at Smedley's Hydro, Matlock where she is a Hydro Waitress - no details of her father.   

Looking in the 1911 census the best match I can find is:

Edith Holmes - age: 13 - living as a Niece in the houshold of John Woodhouse in Matlock

at the same address are:

    John's wife: Edith
    John's Nephew: Herbert Holmes  (who I'm pretty certain is Agne's brother - see later)

(Ref: Class: RG14; Piece: 21206 - Household Schedule: 135)

The same household appears in the 1901 census - but Herbert & Edith have been given the name WOODHOUSE (via dittos) and they are Boarders rather than Nephew & Neice. 

(Ref: Class: RG13; Piece: 3266; Folio: 111; Page: 57)

On "familysearch" I can find a baptism entry for Herbert Holmes - the details are:

Birth: 14 November 1894
Date of Christening: 4 November 1896
Place: Primitive Methodist, Matlock Circuit, Derbyshire
Parents: Herbert & Agnes Holmes.

I can't find a baptism entry for Edith - so was wondering if somebody could look to see if there is an entry that has not been transcribed yet.


In 1891 Census she is living as a servant and is using the name "Sarah Agnes".





Kevin

did you notice in 1891 census Sarah Agnes Woodhouse age 26 is a servant and also a servant is Edith Woodhouse age 19???

May help in some way???

Suz

[heywood]

Edith was enrolled in school as Edith  Woodhouse date of birth 23 February 1898 - father Jack.

Herbert Holmes' father is written 'Mr Woodhouse'. It does not say guardian etc. but presumably that is what it means.