Elusive Ancestor - What next? Help!

[Nikita1985]

Hi Everyone!

Hoping someone might be able to give me a little advice as to my next direction with an elusive ancestor!

What I have so far:

Source: 1911 Census
Henry Holland: Born circa 1866/1867 Manchester - (Source confirmed correct 'Henry' in various ways - although suspicious about place of birth) Living in Derby. (Wright St, - Boarder, apparently married for 13 years)

Source: Birth certificates of his children:
Had four children - but his name wasn't on any of the four birth cert's, just the Mother - Mary Ann Holland and her occupation, (a Hawker) thus no maiden name. All 4 children born during 'marriage'

Source: Baptisms of his children
Mentioned on two of his four children's baptism records, these were the two youngest of the four.  (unable to locate any baptism record for other two older children - possibly not baptised)

Source: Marriage of his children
Mentioned on his first child's marriage cert as the Father of the Groom - 1922
Currently waiting for marriage certificate for second child -1921
Not mentioned on the third child's marriage cert (just a line through the box - although he was on this child's baptism) - 1925
Mentioned on forth child's marriage cert as 'diseased' - 1928 (He was also on this child's baptism)

So! That's what I have. I just don't know where to turn next! I cannot locate a marriage cert as I don't have his 'Wife's' maiden name. And I cannot locate him on any previous census either. All I know is that he died possibly between 1922 - 1928. What would be the best way to use the information I have?

So there is so much detail!
Thank you!
Nikita

[Gibel]

Where are Mary Ann and the children in the 1911 and 1901 census?

[Milliepede]

That is a mixed bag to not be named on any of the birth certificates yet be on two of the baptisms.

Mary Ann would only have been about 17 at the time of alleged marriage - was the oldest child born before 1901 - can he/she be traced?

[Milliepede]

All I know is that he died possibly between 1922 - 1928.

Not necessarily because it wasn't always noted fathers were deceased - even if they were - so he could have died before 1922.

I can't see a death that fits age wise 

[isobelw]

I think I might have found them in 1901 in Mammoth Street, Coalville, Derbyshire in the household of Moses Holland. They are listed as:-
Harry Allwood son in law age 32 born Manchester
Mary Allwood daughter age 28 born Ingleby Yorks
Frederick Allwood grandson age 2 born Derby

There is a much later marriage in Dec quarter of 1918 in Derby between a Henry Allwood and a Mary Ann Holland. So it looks as if they weren't married when the children were born and the children all have their mother's maiden name. For some reason they have chosen to call themselves Mr and Mrs Holland in 1911.
Isobel

[Nikita1985]

Hmm this is all very helpful thank you everyone.
 
To answer some questions on the 1911 census they are in Derby, Henry, Mary Ann and children. The eldest is 11 born 1899. He is my great grandfather. (Frederick)

Monmouth Street Coalville rings right because the second child - Mary Jane was born there. As for Allwood... That's intriguing as Frederick served in the war and when I was sent his papers I also received papers (in the same evelope) for a Harold Allwood... also born  1899... so there's something very strange gouge on here!!!!

[Milliepede]

How interesting!

The certificate for the marriage Isobel found in 1918 could provide some clues. 

[Milliepede]

Mary Allwood daughter age 28 born Ingleby Yorks

Do you think this is the same lady as Mary Ann because I thought she had a different birthplace and was only 30 in 1911

[isobelw]

It looks as if Moses Holland came to a rather sad end. There are reports in various papers eg Dundee Courier 1st Oct 1910 of a Moses Holland age 65, a scissor grinder, drowning in the River Trent while running away from police. The age doesn't tally with the 1901 census but His age varies from census to census (1847 in 1891 and 1852 in 1881) and he is described as a Scissor Grinder in 1881. The family are living in moveable accommodation/tents in both 1881 and 1891 and in 1891 are described as gypsies.
There is a possible for Henry/ Harry Allwood in 1891 (place of birth given as Lanchester but obviously Manchester on the original). He is residing at 29 Park Street Derby and is a Street Lamplighter. Described as married but no wife present - maybe reason he didn't marry Mary Ann right away.
Isobel