Author Topic: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results  (Read 65240 times)

Offline Renatha

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #279 on: Saturday 26 November 16 05:17 GMT (UK) »
You are really doing well DavidG02, and sound so excited! That's wonderful you are making those connections. I only just read somewhere on RootsChat about uploading to GEDmatch and did it a couple of days ago. I did the "One to Many" Matches this morning, but I'm afraid it is all double dutch to me - though it brought up lots of matches. I'm slowly watching YouTube videos to educate myself  :)
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Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #280 on: Sunday 27 November 16 00:06 GMT (UK) »
Shellyesq, this is the Ancestry commercial in question:

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/AZTW/ancestrydna-kim

Her pie chart is shown:

26% Native American
23% Iberian
15% Italy/Greece
5% Africa
8% Asia
23% Other

She says:
"I wanted to know who I am, and where I came from."
"The most shocking result was that I'm 26% Native American; I had no idea."
"This is what I'm made of, this is where my ancestors came from."
"I absolutely want to know more about my Native American heritage"
-- as she is pictured among unidentified "Native American" cultural objects.

And I repeat: Nonsense.  ::)

A person in the US whose ancestors were 49% Native American & Iberian would, indeed, likely have Spanish and indigenous ancestors. And would surely know it.

So I'm sorry, Shellyesq, but your speculation about that woman's ancestry just doesn't really make sense. The idea of someone in the US with significant known Latin American ancestry not knowing that it very probably included indigenous ancestors is just kind of unlikely.

In the interest of full disclosure, Ancestry needs to include some family trees in those ads.  ;D
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?

Online shellyesq

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #281 on: Sunday 27 November 16 01:09 GMT (UK) »
The ad that I saw was a different one, but with a similar result.

Not everyone who takes a DNA test has necessarily researched thoroughly researched their background or given much thought to what groups are going to make up their DNA.  I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense to you, but it does to me.

However, I think I'm done with this discussion, because I don't appreciate being spoken down to in this manner.

Offline lesleyhannah

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #282 on: Sunday 27 November 16 08:40 GMT (UK) »
If you can find the definitions Ancestry uses "Ireland" includes Wales. So you need to add your Welsh ancestry to your Irish to get a better correlation. If you have anyone from Cornwall you can add them in as well. "Ireland" includes all the Celtic areas, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall.
Long line from Somerset, does that count?
I didn't realise they included  Scottish ancestry with Ireland - it makes sense but I can't find anywhere in the information they provide that says that. It also confuses our results somewhat. Can anyone find the info that the Celtic ancestors are all grouped together? Thanks.


Offline youngtug

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Offline Mike in Cumbria

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #284 on: Sunday 27 November 16 09:31 GMT (UK) »

And I repeat: Nonsense.  ::)

A person in the US whose ancestors were 49% Native American & Iberian would, indeed, likely have Spanish and indigenous ancestors. And would surely know it.

So I'm sorry, Shellyesq, but your speculation about that woman's ancestry just doesn't really make sense. The idea of someone in the US with significant known Latin American ancestry not knowing that it very probably included indigenous ancestors is just kind of unlikely.

Everyone's knowledge about their ancestors is not the same - including even their closest relatives.
There are many, many scenarios that would account for a person not knowing where a quarter of their DNA comes from. 

Offline mike175

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #285 on: Sunday 27 November 16 10:09 GMT (UK) »
The DNA ethnic results might make more sense if the terms were more clearly defined.

Anyone born in America is Native American - literally.

If the experts are to be believed the entire human population has African origins. At what point in time do you become non-African?

Way too much woolly thinking for ethnic results to have any serious meaning. If you do it for a bit of fun that's fine, but don't take it so seriously . . .
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Offline Renatha

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #286 on: Sunday 27 November 16 10:52 GMT (UK) »
The DNA ethnic results might make more sense if the terms were more clearly defined.

Way too much woolly thinking for ethnic results to have any serious meaning. If you do it for a bit of fun that's fine, but don't take it so seriously . . .
Agree. Ancestry give my results Irish 53% Scandinavian 20% and GEDmatch call it North Atlantic 51.01% and Baltic 25.54%. Same difference, sort of?  :)
BETTS Brisbane, LEWIS Llangurig, PADFIELD Coleford, BUTTON Somerset, LERGESSNER Berlichingen, DONNELLY Tyrone, BETTS Suffolk, NEEDHAM Norfolk.

Offline JaneyCanuck

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Re: The Times wants your views: DNA ethnicity results
« Reply #287 on: Sunday 27 November 16 18:37 GMT (UK) »
Everyone's knowledge about their ancestors is not the same - including even their closest relatives.
There are many, many scenarios that would account for a person not knowing where a quarter of their DNA comes from.

Mike, you're just not taking my point. The speculation was that a person in the southwest USA might know they have Hispanic (Latin American) ancestry, but not expect that it included "Native American", i.e. the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

I'm in North America (Canada) and I do know a bit about stuff in the US. Pretty much everybody there, especially someone with known Hispanic/Latino ancestors, knows perfectly well that there is almost certainly an indigenous element present in their ancestry. For someone in the US with Hispanic ancestors to come from a line descended from Spanish colonizers of whom none had indigenous spouses would be extremely rare.

Now here's the thing: it turns out these speculations are somewhat right about the person in the TV commercial. ;)

The actor who got the "26% Native American" result is Kim Trujillo. Well of course she knew she had Hispanic ancestry: look at her surname. ... But it turns out that, apparently for cultural reasons common in the US state of New Mexico, where she is from, she thought she was "pure" Spanish:
https://www.pressreader.com/usa/santa-fe-new-mexican/20160703/281977491938545
That's quite an interesting read, from an historical and cultural standpoint.

So she had a blind spot, and her test opened her eyes, as the eyes of other New Mexicans are being opened as they learn -- from historical and archaelogical studies to start with -- that they are very unlikely 100% Spanish, and some of them not Spanish at all.

That really is an almost unique circumstance (as you can see from the history explained in that article) -- although I suppose it would apply to anyone with an ancestral component that had been suppressed or denied for cultural (racist) reasons.

What I wish is that people who are considering this test, or commenting on these "ethnicity" results, would read up just a bit on autosomal DNA and what it can and can't tell us -- and what these "ethnicity" components actually mean.

I guess I'll have to get mine done; the paid-for atDNA test kit has been sitting in a pile somewhere on my desk for almost a year. But it will be done at FTDNA, where I have had both my fathers' and maternal grandfather's YDNA tested. As I'm sure I mentioned way back in the thread, that was done (in the case of my mother's family) for a very specific reason - rumours about her grandfather's ancestry and discoveries that confirmed it was not as advertised; and produced a very specific result - no matches where expected, and an unexpected close match as a result of an amazing stroke of luck, leading the ancestral search down a totally different path.

Most people just don't have the kinds of questions (or suppressed facts) in their ancestry that Kim Trujillo had, and an "ethnicity" test just is not going to provide any useful information at all, about actual ancestors or ancestral history. Autosomal DNA is just too random, and the classifications just too unspecific and essentially meaningless.
HILL, HOARE, BOND, SIBLY, Cornwall (Devon); DENNIS, PAGE, WHITBREAD, Essex; BARNARD, CASTLE, PONTON, Wiltshire; SANKEY, HORNE, YOUNG, Kent; COWDELL, Bermondsey; COOPER, SMITH, FALLOWELL, WILLEY, Notts; CAMPION, CARTER, CRADDOCK, KENNY, Northants; LITTLER, CORNER, Leicestershire; RUSHLAND, Lincolnshire; MORRISON, Ireland; COLLINS, ?; ... MONCK?