Williams - Buckley

[DINGinWALES]

I am trying to find my 2x great grandfather John Williams.  I have Marriage certificate for son Thomas so I know John was a Collier and he lived in Argoed. My problem is this. I do not know Thomas's mother's name and I am not sure of Thomas's date of birth. Looking at the census after Thomas was married (1860) he could have been born in 1836 1838 1839 1840 1841. I have two families which fit John and wife Ruth or John and wife Mary. Both live in the same place Buckley Square. Both have children called Thomas. Both John's are Colliers. Any thoughts on how I can decide which is the right family?

[groom]

Did Thomas name any of his daughters Ruth or Mary?

[lizdb]

Are witnesses at the marriage any help?

[DINGinWALES]

Thank you for your replies. Yes, He did name one of his daughter's Mary and none are Ruth. None of the witnesses are named Williams - one is Phillips (his wife's side) and the other is Hannah Hughes. In the family with Mary as wife he would have a sister called Hannah. I have searched to see if she married anyone called Hughes but so far have come up with nothing. My gut instinct is  John and Mary as parents but...

[groom]

Buckley I think would come under the Holywell registration district? There is a marriage of a Hannah Williams in Holywell in 1852 and on the same page a John Hughes. Would that be too early?

Marriages Dec 1852   
Henry    Mary Anne       
Hughes    John        
Vickers    John Harrison        
Williams    Hannah       

 Holywell    11b   505

[DINGinWALES]

Yes Buckley is under Holywell. It's possible. She would have been 16 or 17.    I have Thomas and his wife Anne married on the 1861 census but I can't find definite entries for either John and Mary  or John and Ruth at that time. I can't find John and Mary Hughes on the 1861 census either 

[DINGinWALES]

I wonder if some kind soul (who is more experienced than me) could point me in the right direction as to what I might try to solve this. I have looked on several sites but keep coming back to the same problem. I favour John and Mary as Thomas's but I cannot see why they would put the wrong age for Thomas (either age 1 or 4) on the census. Ruth would give him the perfect age but there are no other Ruth's in the family. I don't know how to get beyond this. I have gone round in circles all year!

[lizdb]

We have been trying to help you, but there is not going to be a quick and easy answer.

So - you have two Thomas, born in the same place in the same year. One with parents John and Ruth, and one with parents John and Mary.

A Thomas with father John marries in 1860, and that is "your" one.

So - can you find what happened to the "other" one?  Can you follow the two Thomases, through censuses, finding a marriage for the "other" one etc etc, up to two deaths?  Hopefully something along the way might help rule one or the other in or out as being yours. It might mean thinking outside the box, e.g following up witnesses as we were trying to do with the Hannah.   So you may want to try and find what other christenings there were for John and Mary and for John and Ruth, and see if following either group of siblings brings any clarity.
I've a feeling it will be a long hard road, but hopefully you may sort it eventually.

No-one ever said Family History was easy! Well, actually that's not true, a lot of people may say it is easy, but they are wrong!!!

[DINGinWALES]

Thanks!
Unfortunately, I've tried most of what you suggest and had no luck. Why would christenings give any clues? ( not that I've found any ).

Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that you haven't offered any help. I just thought perhaps I wasn't searching the right areas.