Marriage certificate for Thomas Kavanagh only so is it possible to find him?

[eyshame]

Annette7, all the information you have given above is correct. I found it while following John. Anthony like John was in the mining business and I was told when one miner died and left a wife with children another miner often married her for various reasons but John's only child was the last one.

I never found an entry for Margaret, Catherine or Thomas on the 1901 census.

When the baby died Margaret was living in Gateshead and the baby was buried from there and lies in a Gateshead grave but I never found a trace of them again until the 1911 census when Marg is married to Patrick and says she has been married 20 years, which puzzled me as to why they needed to lie.

Thanks Venelow for your post too. I think Annette's post explains it as it is what I found too.

I agree with Annette about concentrating on only Thomas, as it is he who I wish so much to find. I have hoped for years now that I could find him and stand at his grave before I take residence in my own.

I only followed John in the hopes of finding Thomas but that has proven not to be the case so far. I then decided to try to find John's baptismal record to find mother's maiden name again in the hopes of finding Thomas and or his grandparents etc.

Very many thanks Annette for your help, it is appreciated.
E.   

[larkspur]

If your Patrick Mcintyre on the 1911 census is correct- he also seems to have been married before.
1891 census Durham Escomb
Patrick Mcintyre Married 28 coal miner b Woodside Durham
Susan wife 26
Ann dau 5
Patrick son 2
Patrick father widower 76 Conby Longh Ireland

Marriage March 1885 Auckland 10a/262 Patrick McIntyre and Susannah Tyson.

[JenB]

Larkspur, we are on the same wavelength - I was just looking at that 

the 1911 census when Marg is married to Patrick and says she has been married 20 years, which puzzled me as to why they needed to lie.

I wouldn't assume they lied. It is possible Patrick misunderstood the form.    He has certainly done so in respect of the number of children 'from the present marriage' which is also incorrect - he has entered '6', but two of them are from his previous marriage and one from Margaret's previous mariage.

[larkspur]

Jen have you found Patrick on the 1901?The only one coming up for me is
Class: RG13; Piece: 4756; Folio: 91; Page: 16
His age is listed as 34 but looking at the image it clearly says 54. So don't think this is the correct one.Plus the parents birthplaces are both Ireland.
There is also this
Marriages Jun 1903   Gateshead    10a   1604   
Davis    William       
McIntyre    Susannah       
McMahon    Alexander       
Sharp    Martha       

[JenB]

Jen have you found Patrick on the 1901?

No  I can only see his sons Patrick and Owen who are with their uncle William in Benwell.

[Annette7]

I looked at Patrick McIntyre last night - he had 4 children with Susan/Susannah: Ann b. Mar.1886, Margaret b.Sept.1887 (you missed her off the 1891 census larkspur), Patrick b.Mar.1888 and an Owen (I think Owen Henry b.Dec.1894).   Think his wife died 1895 and by 1901 these 4 children not with him - the 2 girls are in St. Marys Home, Tudhoe, Durham although for some reason both shown 2 years younger than they were - the 2 boys are with paternal uncle William McIntyre and his family.

In 1901 there is no trace of Patrick McIntyre, nor Margaret Kavanagh and daughter Catherine - so unknown if they were already together or not.

All I have found is that a T Kavanagh of the Leinster Regt. no. 5566 died in the Boer War of Disease on 20/1/1901.   Service records for soldiers that died do not appear in service records listings I believe so another dead end.

Having spent a great deal of time on this knotty problem, my opinion - for what it's worth - is that it is not possible to trace Thomas Kavanagh from the limited details we have from the marriage certificate.   No trace in 1891 - no death in UK records -  no trace in 1901 (when probably already dead), no idea of his birthplace........

Not what you want to hear, I know, but have exhausted all the online sources I have access to and honestly cannot think of any other avenue to try.   There are just too many unknowns. 

Sorry!

Annette   

[JenB]

the limited details we have from the marriage certificate.   

Eyshame, did you get the marriage certificate from the GRO, or have you got the details from the church register?

If you haven't got the register details I think it might be worth spending a small amount of money to get them from Durham Record Office. Roman Catholic marriage registers occasionally contain additional details of parentage. You might just be lucky

I think I'm right in saying that they married at The Brooms at Leadgate? The registers for The Brooms are held by Durham Record Office. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gy6/

You know the exact date of the marriage so there would be no problem in getting a copy. The table of fees is here. I have found the staff at DRO to be most helpful in the past.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gy7/

[eyshame]

Everything said since my last post is correct regarding Patrick McIntyre etc.

Regarding the Boar War entry, I found that too along with a J Kavanagh and wondered if the 'bothers' had joined up together with only John returning. I contacted not only the Leinster regiment which I am now told is the Green Howards, without any luck as I contacted them too, but I contacted the Boer War Museum in Johannesburg. There is a grave there apparently but the person wanted several hundreds of pounds from me to go look and take one photo - I had to decline.

I was told I could get this information from Kew as it is listed there and it would tell me where he was living at the time of enlistment - not sure if this is true as wasn't able to follow that one up.

I do have the proper marriage certificate, copy from GRO. Married on 7.04.1894 at Lanchester. TK is 27, a bachelor and a coal miner and she is 21 a spinster and domestic servant. The address is Flint Hill Dipton, no street listed. TK's dad is John a labourer and her dad, Owen, is a coal miner. TK signs his name she puts an X. The witnesses are Edward Crenston and Eliz Kennedy. Priest is A. Magill.

I will contact the Durham Reg office tomorrow and see if I can get a church copy.

I have contacted the Durham Mining museums and there is no listing for TK anywhere in my area and only one for Cumbria but there is for Patrick's son/s.

TK did exist but what happened to him?

I am now frightened to start a thread to look for my maternal grandmother's father who has a very similar story attached to him in that I only have his marriage certificate too.

Am I just unlucky?

I hate to give up hope after all these years and hard work along with all the help I have received here, surely there is a way around this- is there?

My very many thanks indeed for all the help from everyone, it truly is appreciated.
E.

[larkspur]

http://www.the-dicksons.org/Leinster_Regiment/soldiers/leinster_soldiers.htm

Not sure if this will be of interest to you eyshame.....or just another complication