All Saints Newcastle upon Tyne lookup - HENZIL/HENZELL

[WRAG]

Is there anyone with access to the parish registers for All Saints who could check a burial for me?

According to the National Burial Index Joseph Henzil was buried at All Saints on 19 Nov 1728.

This date fits with his will (Joseph Henzell of the Bill House signed his will on 12 April 1727 & it was proved on 18 November 1730).  However, other evidence suggest he was still alive in 1729.  In that year he (or a completely different Joseph Henzell of Bill House) was a partner in the deed establishing the Newcastle Company of Broad and Crown Glass Owners.

Could some kind soul check the Burial Register and confirm whether the burial happened in 1728 or 1729?

Thank you

William Good
Sydney, Australia

[Radcliff]

The Bishops transcripts for All Saints 1729 ,

[davidft]

Prior to the change of the calendar in 1752

http://www.adsb.co.uk/date_and_time/calendar_reform_1752/

the new year use to start on 25 March, so 24 March 1728 would be followed by 25 March 1729. As a consequence many years move a year when people "correct" them but do not say so.

As far as I can see the records are not online. I could look when I go to the library but that may not be for a while.

Out of interest where is it that the alternative date of 1729 is given ?

[JenB]

The Bishops transcripts for All Saints 1729 ,

The Bishops Transcripts available online don't appear to start until 1762 

[2zpool]

My transcript has the year changing between 23 Mar 1727 and 25 Mar being 1728 [the 25th being the next entry after 23rd]  The entry for Joseph Henzil was 19 Nov 1728 and he was a glasier.

Janis

[WRAG]

Thank you David & Janis

The date that made me wonder about the burial date comes from the 1729 deed establishing The Newcastle Company of Broad and Crown Glass Owners as quoted in "The Development of the Glass Industry on the Rivers Tyne and Wear, 1700 - 1900." by Catherine Ross (Doctoral thesis 1982). Joseph Henzell of Bill House, glassmaker, owned 4 shares in the Company.  I cannot identify any other Joseph Henzell of Bill House.  Joseph did have a son of that name, but he would have been only 14.

The baptisms of Joseph's children occurred at All Saints (1708) Eglingham (1711 - 1715) and Long Benton (1716) so it is quite possible that Joseph of Bill House was buried at Eglingham or Long Benton and that the 1728 burial at All Saints is that of a different Joseph Henzell.

Thank you again

William

[davidft]

Thank you David & Janis

The date that made me wonder about the burial date comes from the 1729 deed establishing The Newcastle Company of Broad and Crown Glass Owners as quoted in "The Development of the Glass Industry on the Rivers Tyne and Wear, 1700 - 1900." by Catherine Ross (Doctoral thesis 1982). Joseph Henzell of Bill House, glassmaker, owned 4 shares in the Company.  I cannot identify any other Joseph Henzell of Bill House.  Joseph did have a son of that name, but he would have been only 14.

The baptisms of Joseph's children occurred at All Saints (1708) Eglingham (1711 - 1715) and Long Benton (1716) so it is quite possible that Joseph of Bill House was buried at Eglingham or Long Benton and that the 1728 burial at All Saints is that of a different Joseph Henzell.

I think the answer to that is possibly that as Joseph's will had not yet been proved (not done until 18 Nov 1730) then at this point the shares were still his even though he was dead. Someone with a bit more legal understanding may be able to help with that point a bit more

[WRAG]

Further to my previous comment.  I have just found that the signature of Joseph on his will from 1727 is an older and shaky version of the signature from his Marriage Allegation of 1707, which matches exactly the signature from the administration of the estate of his father, Peregrine, in 1712.

Joseph, son of Peregrine, was mentioned in his uncle Cuthbert Chesman's will, dated 11 July, 1729, which means that the burial of 1728 cannot be that of Joseph of the Bill House.

William

[davidft]

Joseph, son of Peregrine, was mentioned in his uncle Cuthbert Chesman's will, dated 11 July, 1729, which means that the burial of 1728 cannot be that of Joseph of the Bill House.

I had wondered how you knew that death was yours, (and now it seems it is not)

The reason I wondered is that there are two (?) baptisms of a Joseph Henzell in Newcastle on 3 February 1728 or 1729. As there is another baptism on 17 Aug 1730 I would suggest the 1728 one dies and that is who was buried in Newcastle in Nov 1728 (although for a child they usually state it is a child) - Edit I see the 1728 and 1730 Joseph's have different fathers

However the fact that Joseph was mentioned in a will on 11 July 1729 does not preclude him already being dead. You need to know when the will was drawn up, and whether there is any mention to him being dead in the 1729 will