Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK

[rosie99]

I had just been looking at her myself and had added to my post that she was bugging me 

[CathrynJ]

Interesting illegitimate son of Ernestine Lefort called Ernest as of course Ernestine Saunders in 1911 has son Ernest (aged 19 though).

Looking for the birth registration of Marie, maybe this one? How can I find more info about the parents for a birth registration, is ordering the birth certificate the only way?

Marie Saunders
Registration Year:   1894
Registration Quarter:   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district:   London City
Parishes for this Registration District:   View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County:   London
Volume:   1c
Page:   2

[CathrynJ]

Hi Rosie -
Bit of a major update here.

Finally spoke with my cousin. Our grandparents are as much as a mystery to them as to me - the frequent refrain when questioned being "the past is the past".

However two pieces of info were recalled -

Grannie Jiggens had a brother my cousins knew as "Uncle Lambert" which I guess will be a half brother from marriage between Marie and Walter Lambert.

But most striking was a photo recalled - it was of an older man in early 1900's. Of him Daphne said to my cousin "he is a relation, he lives in france and is an artist".

The father of Ernestine Le Fort is Eugene Le Fort who is a Jeweller (the "artist"?) and Plate polisher, from France.

The Le Fort Family appear 1871 / 81, they disappear off the 1891 census though Ernestine seems to remain as a servant in Hanover Square.

Is it possible that in the gap of the 1901 census, Ernestine is in fact in France with her father?

That we now have confirmation of a french connection - I feel that I could now tentatively put Ernestine Le Fort & Saunders as one in the same, and proceed researching from that assumption.

What do you think Rosie?

[CathrynJ]

Actually I can find Eugene Lefort now in his 70's in Holloway in 1911, so it doesn't seem that he ever moves back to france.

But it could be that he visits. I recall other black and white pictures that were clearly on the continent, and that if pushed to guess would say they were france, which was why I always had an idea that my Gran originated from the continent.

it could be the family were occasionally travelling to france to see family - hence the picture my cousin described - Eugene in France, rather than living in France? If the picture my cousin enquired about to Granny - it is a man in a white linen suit, has a white beard and it looks hot in the picture!

[CathrynJ]

The question remains, though, where does Ernestine Le Fort become Ernestine Saunders? Can't for the life of me find that anywhere ....

[rosie99]

Sorry, I have been having internet problems 

The only way of finding out what is on a birth certificate is by ordering it.  I have in the past ordered one from the GRO and said that I do not know the reference, then you get a different form to complete.  It does take longer for it to come as they will do a search.
 I think if I was going to try this one all I would enter on the form would be the name of the child approx year of birth and give mothers christian name.  If they can't find a birth for a Marie Saunders c1894 with mother Ernestine (I would not give Ernestine a surname) then they should refund the money if they can't find a match.

I am pleased that you have managed to get some more information from your cousins, it certainly sounds promising.

In 1891 Eugene is in Bishopsgate at 9 Crosby Square with wife Hannah and children Julia, George & Albert. Also a visitor Sarah Scott.
Ref RG12 piece 241 folio 35 page 7

In 1901 there is just Eugene and wife Hannah living Hammersmith
RG13 piece 50 folio 168 page 15

I think the Le fort family are certainly worth investigating further.

If Ernestine Saunders is previously Le Fort you may never find a change of name.

[CathrynJ]

Dear Rosie,

Yes it does seem a good potential match that Ernestine is of the Le Forts - both on the Location, and occupation. My cousins are very excited and are going to pull out more photos and talk see what else they can remember. All is well :-)

We recalled also "Uncle Jim" his wife was "Pat" and in the 1970's they would have been in about their late 50's or 60's, living near 6 Bells pub near Woodchurch in Kent (my Granny and Grandpa lived in a mobile home nearby).

Yes I think might try what you say re Marie and a birth certificate, as I cannot find a registration for her birth anywhere.

I am wondering if Ernestine was not a widow and this was used as a coverup, just perhaps as it seems that Marie potentially had two children illegitimately by Reginald Hamilton.

I wonder what the story behind it all is - fascinating!

[CathrynJ]

Thank you so much Rosie for all of your help with this, I would have been totally lost and never have got so far without you!

Its been like the most amazing unfolding detective story, and I can see how it can become quite obsessive!

Just gathering myself for next steps, and also have notice that my DNA result will come through soon, I am going to put this on Familydna see if anything comes up there to confirm all the things uncovered.

[CathrynJ]

Dear Rosie,
Just one more thing if its ok - you say further back:

"Marie M Saunders married in that name to Walter Lambert -  June qtr 1919.
They appear together on street directories on Ancestry
That marriage should give Maries fathers details"

Could you tell me please how I would find Maries fathers details from this marriage?
Many thanks!