Author Topic: James RIGBY on the 61 census  (Read 4507 times)

Offline fraserrigby

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 27 August 16 00:01 BST (UK) »
Hi All thanks for the info, when you hit a wall it can be so frustrating, James Fraser Rigby is my 3rd great Grandfather and I have been researching the Rigbys for over 30 yrs now so the brick walls are starting to become a regular thing for me now. Something that I have noticed is that depending on who writes down the info depends on how it is spelt, James fraser Rigbys marriage cert. gives his name as Regby!
James Fraser Rigby had a child Maryjane Low(1861-1932) and a paternity suit against him by Christian Low(1839) was accepted by the courts but it seems James had nothing to do with her because Maryjane was listed as staying with her Grandparents George(1804) and Ealenor(1807) Low in the 1861 and 1871 census. James married Mary Gordon(1836-1892) in Old Machar in Aberdeen 1862 and they had 8 children the first 4 were born in Aberdeen, William(1864), Maryanne(1868), Christina(1867) and Thomas(1869) the next 2 were born in Edinburgh, Louisa(1871) and John(1873) the last 2 James(1878) and Georgina(1879) were born in Rutherglen my family runs down through Williams line. I still think James left Fraserburgh with John Fraser to seek work in Edin. or he was avoiding the paternity suit whatever the reason he makes his way back to Aberdeen and settles down with Mary. An interesting point to note is the Rigbys have used Fraser as either a first name or a middle name in every generation in my tree right down to my son so James Rigby must of thought highly of his Grandparents James and Jean Fraser to continue using the Fraser name. I too cant get further back the Frasers than John Fraser and Isabella Henderson and don't have any info on either of the two. I cant get a hold of James Fraser Rigbys birth cert. but it is in the census as Ireland N.K. which I'm led to believe is not known, wheather this is not known if he was born in Ireland or not known where about in Ireland who knows. Another mystery is why his father and mother (Thomas and Anne) went over to Ireland (during the potato famine) for a few years had James then came back to Fraserburgh??? I'm still baffled by that one as I cant find any info at all about this. I do know that the Rigbys originally came from Brixworth and Pitsford in Northamptonshire and when my Rigbys were up in the 'Broch' there was another set of Rigbys living in Aberdeen (George Rigby a gunsmith) but these Rigbys are unrelated to ours. Any info gladly accepted and given out. cheers Fraser Rigby.   

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 27 August 16 09:57 BST (UK) »
Fraser, you are making all sorts of assumptions that you cannot justify from the facts you have.

Something that I have noticed is that depending on who writes down the info depends on how it is spelt, James fraser Rigbys marriage cert. gives his name as Regby!
Spelling wasn't fixed or 'correct' until about the early 20th century. Until then, any old method of spelling could be used and it's not unusual to find the name of one person spelled in different ways at different times on different documents. Sometimes, also, it is quite hard to decipher what the person intended to write.

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James Fraser Rigby had a child Maryjane Low(1861-1932) and a paternity suit against him by Christian Low(1839) was accepted by the courts but it seems James had nothing to do with her because Maryjane was listed as staying with her Grandparents George(1804) and Ealenor(1807) Low in the 1861 and 1871 census.
If the court found that James was her father, then you can be pretty sure that he was. It was absolutely the norm for an illegitimate child to live with and be brought up by grandparents, most often the maternal grandparents. The fact that Maryjane was not living with her father tells you absolutely nothing about her parentage. Maybe James' wife refused to take on his illegitimate child, or maybe Maryjane's mother didn't want her to be handed over to a stepmother. You can never know the reason.

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I still think James left Fraserburgh with John Fraser to seek work in Edin. or he was avoiding the paternity suit whatever the reason he makes his way back to Aberdeen and settles down with Mary.
Almost certainly for purposes of work.

In 1861 he was in Lerwick with a cousin, using his real name. In 1862 the court noted that he was in Edinburgh. Later that year he married in Aberdeen. If he was trying to do a runner, he made a pretty lame job of it!

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An interesting point to note is the Rigbys have used Fraser as either a first name or a middle name in every generation in my tree right down to my son so James Rigby must of thought highly of his Grandparents James and Jean Fraser to continue using the Fraser name.
Giving a child a family surname as a middle name was pretty standard practice from the middle of the 19th century onwards. It's also fairly common for a child to acquire in later life a middle name that isn't on the baptism record or birth certificate.

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I cant get a hold of James Fraser Rigbys birth cert. but it is in the census as Ireland N.K. which I'm led to believe is not known, wheather this is not known if he was born in Ireland or not known where about in Ireland who knows.
In 1841 his parents told the enumerator that James was born in Ireland.

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Another mystery is why his father and mother (Thomas and Anne) went over to Ireland (during the potato famine) for a few years had James then came back to Fraserburgh???
the 1841 census lists them at Philorth House, Fraserburgh: Thomas Rigby, 20, male servant, born England; Ann Rigby, 20, born Aberdeenshire; James Rigby, 2, born Ireland. (there is also a Jean Rigby, aged 1, born Aberdeenshire, with James and Jean Fraser in High Street, Fraserburgh in 1841). So it looks as if they moved from Ireland to Fraserburgh between James' birth in 1838/9 and Jean's birth in 1839/40.

The 1851 lists James Rigby, grandson, aged 12, in Fraserburgh with James Fraser, 73, retired flesher, born Rathen and his wife Jean, 50, born Fraserburgh. (I would want to check Jean's age by checking the original of that 1851 census, as it it so much at odds with her being 60 in 1841. Or is she a different Jean altogether, a second wife of James Fraser?)

So I don't think there can be any doubt that James was born in Ireland in 1838/9.

The Irish potato famine started in 1845, so James was born well before the famine. Thomas might have gone to Ireland to work, or, just possibly, he might have been in the Army, which might explain why he moved around so much before finally settling in Moray.

The 1851 lists them at Darglans, Knockando, which is in Moray, about 10 miles south of Elgin: Thomas, 33, gamekeeper, born England; Wife Ann, 34, born Fraserburgh; children Ann, 9; Mary, 7; William, 6; Thomas, 4; and Lucy, 2, all born in Fraserburgh. So you know that they moved from Fraserburgh to Knockando between 1848/9 and 30 March 1851, and that if they did go to Ireland at any time during the famine, it must have been for a very short time.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 27 August 16 10:01 BST (UK) »
Forfarian if you have a connection to these Rigbys that means you have a links to the branches of three of my four grandparents is that a tad unusual?
Yes, I think so. A bit spooky, really.

Must do some work on your 4th grandparent :)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline jennywren001

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 27 August 16 11:10 BST (UK) »
Just want to add a couple of things...I don't think the John Fraser with James F Rigby in Orkney is a close relation to James. I followed John through and his parents were a John Fraser (plasterer) and Isabella Reid - this family can be found living on Ministers Lane, Aberdeen in 1851.

In 1861 I suspect the Low family living in one room at 5 Castle Street were in pretty desperate straits. The two nieces listed are the orphaned children of William McKay and Mary Wilson - I know this as they happen to be on the same page of the poor records as my Martha McKay. The head of the household was widowed and Christian Low the daughter had an illegitimate 14 day old daughter to look after on her income as a washerwoman. Hardly surprising money was sought from Mr Rigby.

George Low little Mary Jane's uncle is also a plasterer...in 1881 he and his family are back in Fraserburgh after a spell in the USA - hmm wonder where that was?

Forfarian, you'll have to do some work on my Grandpa Russell's side unlike my other three grandparents his relatives range across multiple counties - Perthshire, Angus, Kincardineshire and Aberdeenshire - probably multiple connections ;)

Jen


Edit:Followed George Low and family and it looks like they leave Scotland for the final time in 1885 on the Caspian sailing to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
North East Scotland above the Tay...
JOLLY, Johnston,Thom, Rae, Davidson, Fielding, Sherret
FEARN, McKenzie, Stirling [brick wall], Robb, Wilson, Stott
RUSSELL, Fullerton, Christie, Cochrane, Davidson, Coutts, Easton, Scott
FRASER, Henderson, Noble, Mundie, Goodall, Thain, Neish, Moir


Offline fraserrigby

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 27 August 16 23:37 BST (UK) »
Forfarian you make some very valid points, I have to agree that a lot of information that I cant prove is just assumptions but sometimes an educated guess can get you through the brick walls, I know I said that Mary Jane Low might not of had anything to do with the Rigbys but why then would she be named as Maryjane Rigby on her husband George Tochers (1857-1920) death cert? If she kept the Rigby name rather than staying with Low did the law decide this or was it common for illegitimate children to take on their fathers name if proved? I don't know, which is why I will readily accept any info from other geneologists who do know. James Fraser Rigbys father Thomas was born in Northamptonshire in 1818 then he marries Anne Fraser in Fraserburgh in 1837, how does a 19yr old English lad get from Northamptonshire to Fraserburgh? we'll probably never know or am I wrong? does anyone know?

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 28 August 16 00:19 BST (UK) »
I know I said that Mary Jane Low might not of had anything to do with the Rigbys but why then would she be named as Maryjane Rigby on her husband George Tochers (1857-1920) death cert?
That does suggest that whoever registered George Tocher's death knew that her father was James Rigby.

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If she kept the Rigby name rather than staying with Low did the law decide this or was it common for illegitimate children to take on their fathers name if proved?
No, the law didn't decide which name she would use. It's not uncommon for illegitimate children to be known by both their father's and their mother's surname, and to be recorded with a different surname in different documents. Also, a child may be known by its father's surname even though there was never any documented proof.


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I don't know, which is why I will readily accept any info from other geneologists who do know. James Fraser Rigbys father Thomas was born in Northamptonshire in 1818 then he marries Anne Fraser in Fraserburgh in 1837, how does a 19yr old English lad get from Northamptonshire to Fraserburgh? we'll probably never know or am I wrong? does anyone know?
That is certainly a bit of a mystery. Could he have come with parents who died before the 1841 census? Or could he have been in the Army? Did the then owners of Philorth own any estates in Northampstonshire? Sometimes the reason for someone moving is that they are employed by a big landowner who has an estate near where they were born, and the employer then offers them a job on another of their estates. Did the owners of Philorth own land in Ireland too?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline ruthhelen

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 28 August 16 10:48 BST (UK) »
That is certainly a bit of a mystery. Could he have come with parents who died before the 1841 census? Or could he have been in the Army? Did the then owners of Philorth own any estates in Northampstonshire? Sometimes the reason for someone moving is that they are employed by a big landowner who has an estate near where they were born, and the employer then offers them a job on another of their estates. Did the owners of Philorth own land in Ireland too?

I wouldn't be at all surprised. Philorth House is the family seat of the Frasers of Philorth. The incumbent at the time that Thomas Rigby was employed at Philorth was Alexander George Fraser, 17th Lord Saltoun (1785 - 1853). He was a general in the British Army and travelled extensively in that role - including fighting at Waterloo. Interestingly, he died in Rothes in 1853 - which isn't a million miles away from Knockando, where Thomas was working as a gamekeeper in 1851 - so perhaps the Frasers had a connection to the Knockando estate as well?

Ruth
McArthur, Milne, Mitchell, Black, Robertson, Morrison, Slessor, Lawrence - Aberdeenshire/Banffshire. Muir, Waddell, Fraser, Orr, Cowden - Lanarkshire/Renfrewshire/Dunbartonshire. Dalziel, Dalzell, Gourley, Cromie, Crombie, Bell - Co Down. Lewis, Corrigan, Morris, Cox, Hay - Monmouthshire/Pembrokeshire.  Baker, Ginger, Woodhurst, Swift, Jones - Kent/London.

Offline fraserrigby

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 28 August 16 21:29 BST (UK) »
George Tochers death cert was signed by his son James Tocher, Maryjane used Rigby as a surname on her marriage cert as well, on her birth cert she was a Low because James was not named as the father it was signed(X) by her Aunt Sarah Mcleman who was present at the birth. James was however named as the father on Marys Wedding cert.
Thomas Rigby came to Scotland by himself he left all his family in pitsford (or Pisford as it was formaly known) William Rigby(1792-1847) James Fraser Rigbys grandfather worked as a head gardener at Sulby Hall in Northamptonshire which was owned by George Payne(1803-1878).
I contacted Flora Marjory Fraser 20th Lady Saltoun Chief of Clan Fraser and got a very nice reply from her regarding Philorth, it seems the Frasers sold Philorth before or around the time that Thomas was employed as a gamekeeper and it belonged to a family who ran tea clippers out of Aberdeen(The Frasers however bought back Philorth and still own it today). Maybe this family knew George Payne through his connection with horses and gambling?
Whilst a gamekeeper at Dunlugas Thomas Rigby with John Munro gamekeeper to Mr James McKay, Banff, were fined for trespass on Lord Fifes lands they were fined £1 with £4.10 expenses, given 3 days to pay(they couldn't) and were imprisoned for 10 months with hard labour. This was in December 1857.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: James RIGBY on the 61 census
« Reply #35 on: Monday 29 August 16 11:42 BST (UK) »
it seems the Frasers sold Philorth before or around the time that Thomas was employed as a gamekeeper and it belonged to a family who ran tea clippers out of Aberdeen(The Frasers however bought back Philorth and still own it today). Maybe this family knew George Payne through his connection with horses and gambling?
I had read somewhere that Philorth was sold in 1613; that it passed to Lord Aberdeen in 1775; that it was ruinous until bought in 1863 and restored by the shipbuilding Duthie family from Aberdeen, and finally bought back by Lord Saltoun in 1934.
In the period we are looking at, Philorth belonged to John Gordon, an illegitimate son of Lord Aberdeen.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.