Author Topic: Mother missing from baptism record  (Read 5772 times)

Offline leka

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #9 on: Monday 04 January 16 17:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi Snowball
Baptisms, South Shields District - Record Number: 512244.0
Location: South Shields
Church: St. Hilda
Denomination: Anglican
16 Feb 1814 Elizabeth Williams of South Shields, daughter of Joseph Williams (mariner)
This taken from 'durhamrecordsonline' but there is no Mothers name.
leka
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Offline snowball

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #10 on: Monday 04 January 16 20:59 GMT (UK) »
Thanks all for such useful input!

I haven't seen the original PR yet but it would appear from your replies that it contains the same information. There are no other clues on the BTs page - and I can't find other examples of just the father being recorded among the records.

Yes, I think it might be something to do with the mother being too ill to attend the baptism. I can't tell if birth date and baptism were close to each other as only the latter is recorded.

This couple do appear to keep the clergy on their toes - they baptised their first child in Jarrow on the same day (in August 1799) as they wed down the road in South Shields!

Thanks again
Rob

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #11 on: Monday 04 January 16 23:12 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I think it might be something to do with the mother being too ill to attend the baptism. I can't tell if birth date and baptism were close to each other as only the latter is recorded.
Is this a likely explanation?  Isn't the register a record of parentage, rather than of who attended the ceremony?  My guess would be that the transcriber absent-mindedly moved on to the next 'field'- or possibly wasn't sure what he was copying?
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Offline pinefamily

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #12 on: Monday 04 January 16 23:31 GMT (UK) »
Not when the original documents fail to name the mother. Not a transcriber's omission, but rather the minister or clerk at the time. For whatever reason, the mother was not there, they didn't get her name at the time so couldn't fill in the register later, or something else.
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Offline majm

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 05 January 16 00:11 GMT (UK) »
The image posted is from a transmitted record.   I do think our OP should follow the advice given by JenB and seek out the original register. 

There's several possibilities for that July 1814 baptism:
a) Elizabeth is an adult, and the clergy has only asked for her father's name as a way of registering her details in the parish register, anticipating that few people would need to consult the register
b) Elizabeth is a child aged seven or more (I stand corrected on 'age of seven' relying on grey cells), who has gone to the clergyman directly and asked to be baptised and the clergy have agreed that she understands this sacrament (one of only two sacraments in the C of E) and the clergy has only asked for her father's name as a way of registering her details in the parish register (as few needed to consult the register)
c) the scribe transferring the information into the Bishop's transcripts has not been able to decipher the name of the mother from the transmitted record sent through.
d) the scribe has not re-check, nor has the scribe had anyone re-check the transcripts sent through
e) the transcription sent through from the original register did not record mum's name due to an oversight
f) the transcription sent through from the original register did not record mum's name because mum's name was not known to the clergy
g) and h) and probably many others as well ......

So please consider getting to the original register  :)

Durham Records Online has the South Shields St Hilda baptisms for this year, and according to their Parish Records page http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/Parish_Record_Info.php their record is taken from the original rather than the BT's.

You could buy a few credits to see if a mother's name is mentioned on there - but a search of the index cross-referenced with the mother's name Cecilia gives a negative result.

If there's no mother's name on the original I'd tend to go along with what others have said assume that the omission was an administrative error.

PS ADD
we need to remember that it was not until the 1960s or there abouts that  baptisms and/or civil registrations commenced to record a surname for the person being 'registered'....  It is logical to assume that Elizabeth's surname was WILLIAMS, but the baptismal record does NOT actually NOTE that, particularly as her mum's name is not on it.   Many of us overlook that a baby's surname comes from their mum's then surname, particularly in the 19th Century .... If mum is a married woman, then likely she would be using her husband's surname as her own.   

ADD 
....... This taken from 'durhamrecordsonline' but there is no Mothers name.
   

Cheers,  JM  (edit to sort out some grammar)
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Offline Billyblue

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 05 January 16 04:28 GMT (UK) »
OR, putting aside JM's excellent scenarios and thinking it is an infant:

Mother may have died in childbirth.

Plus, I've seen lots of early baptisms - even into the 1800s - where the child is described as son or daughter of (male person) and no mention of his wife as if she had nothing to do with it!

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Offline josey

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 05 January 16 08:18 GMT (UK) »
I can find her in 1851 census and later, but not in 1841, when she would have been a Calvert (she m George Calvert in Feb 1837). Can anyone spot her in 1841?
When did George die & what was his occupation? If he was alive & a mariner, Elizabeth may be on her own. Had they had children before George died? Do you have her parents or George's parents in 1841?
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline snowball

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 05 January 16 08:54 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Josey.

Elizabeth Williams, spinster, m George Calvert, bachelor, in Tynemouth on Feb 11, 1837 - after banns.  Witnesses were Mary Williams and James Calvert. I haven't got a birth for their apparent son, George Calvert, although he is listed as 14 in 1851 census.

There's a death for a George Calvert in September quarter 1839, South Shields. Elizabeth remarries (my line) in 1843.

So I haven't got a profession for George senior. And no parents on the 1841 I've seen.

Rob

Offline JenB

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Re: Mother missing from baptism record
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 05 January 16 08:54 GMT (UK) »
So please consider getting to the original register  :)

The baptism entry kindly provided in reply #9 by leka (who will have had to use pre-paid credits to view it  :) ) is from Durham Records Online, and is therefore taken from the original register.

Durham Records Online has the South Shields St Hilda baptisms for this year, and according to their Parish Records page http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/Parish_Record_Info.php their record is taken from the original rather than the BT's.
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