Help please, Australia birth 1902 Edward George Kitchener PLANE

[Toban]

Kellymasters, have you researched to locate and identify Henry GALLAGHER, the children's baptismal sponsor?

Sue

I would say he is Mary's brother, b. 1888 in Kyneton #21860. Their parents were Charles Gallagher and Abby Callaghan

[sparrett]

Perhaps Mary was fond enough of brother Henry GALLAGHER to name her daughter after him... Henrietta
She was born in 1900, being 2 years in September 1902 on Edward George Kitchener's birth certificate.

Henrietta's second given name was Jane, which of course was Thomas PLANE's mother's name.

This may be a good clue that Henrietta was the child of Thomas and that the split happened as Toban deduces, after her birth.

Sue

ADDING.
I have looked at the third given name for Henrietta which appears to be Abenia or similar and I wonder whether it was an attempt to name her after Mary's mother Abby/Abbey/Abigail

[Toban]

An Abenia Mary Callaghan (1876–1934) was the daughter of Patrick Callaghan and Margaret Sullivan, of East Melbourne. She is of the right age to be Mary Gallagher Plane Heffernan's cousin.....

T

[kellymasters]

Kellymasters, have you researched to locate and identify Henry GALLAGHER, the children's baptismal sponsor?

Sue

Hi Sue,

I think he is Mary's grandfather, Mary's maiden name was GALLAGHER , haven't yet researched this generation. I have been too busy trying to work out Thomas Henry PLANE and Mary GALLAGHER, and then Mary and George Edward HEFFERNAN and their children. AND that is defeinitely been keeping me busy

[kellymasters]

I can't believe I didn't recognise the Heffernan/Plane father-forename swap in the baptismal register! That's what happens when you try and do genealogy sleep deprived!

So, I am going to agree with the thoughts that perhaps Mr. Heffernan is the father of the twins, and that Mary registered them officially with Thomas Plane as the father as he was her lawful husband at the time. The possibility of Edward G. K. also being Heffernan's son is strong, and it would give you a pretty solid explanation as to why only he and Dorothy/Doris accompanied their mother and Heffernan to N.Z. - they were his kids. The elder three (Fred, Charles & Hetta) all belonged to Plane, so they stayed in Aus. (Incidentally, did Edward and Doris keep the name Plane in NZ, or did they use Heffernan?)

Plane seems to be 'officially' shacked up with Harriet Horton by 1908, when their child is born and registered with them as parents, however Harriet's illegitimate child born in 1903 (Arthur Raymond Horton, #2834) later took the name Plane as his own, and on his death certificate Thomas Plane is listed as the father. This seems to me that Thomas and Harriet were together in 1903, so it stands to reason that Mary and Heffernan could be together by 1906.

Now, I am heading Albury way just after Christmas, I can see if I can get a look at the registers of St. Patrick's if you like, and tell you whether there's anything of interest there.

Toban

The swapping of names on the baptism record is what got me so confused. I never expected that, and it was then that I started to wonder......

Based on your thoughts, I can see why Dorothy, and Edward came to NZ with their mother. Edward grew up believing his surname (and i am guessing Dorothy too) was HEFFERNAN. He is even on electoral rolls as Edward George HEFFERNAN. The story goes (from a great aunt who passed away earlier this year, that when Edward went to get married he had to produce a full birth cert and that is when he found out his name was PLANE.....

Yes, please feel free to look deeper into this when you are in Albury if you have time. It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[kellymasters]

Oh, I have a present for you! I had done some research around Elmore a little while ago and thought I'd have a look at a couple of the certificates I'd bought to see if there was anyone of interest to you on them, and who do I find but Arthur Raymond Horton, Harriet's son who was claimed by Thomas Plane!!!!! See attached.

Arthur was born in March 1903, so would've been conceived May/June 1902.
Edward was born in Sept 1902, so would've been conceived around New Year's 1902.

While it's obviously not impossible that Thomas & Mary split between New Year's and May of '02 the timing could indicate that indeed Edward belongs to Mr. Heffernan...... If you have male-line descendants of both Edward Plane and Francis Heffernan, a Y-DNA would confirm this.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!! 

WOW, thank you for the christmas present...... Merry Christmas to you too.

Hmmmmm Y-DNA testing, this is something I know nothing about....but could definitely be something to look into. Definitely know of descendants of Edward Plane. I don't know the descendants of Francis so am sure of Francis at the moment .....

[kellymasters]

Kellymasters, have you researched to locate and identify Henry GALLAGHER, the children's baptismal sponsor?

Sue

Maybe....

I would say he is Mary's brother, b. 1888 in Kyneton #21860. Their parents were Charles Gallagher and Abby Callaghan

[kellymasters]

Perhaps Mary was fond enough of brother Henry GALLAGHER to name her daughter after him... Henrietta
She was born in 1900, being 2 years in September 1902 on Edward George Kitchener's birth certificate.

Henrietta's second given name was Jane, which of course was Thomas PLANE's mother's name.

This may be a good clue that Henrietta was the child of Thomas and that the split happened as Toban deduces, after her birth.

Sue

ADDING.
I have looked at the third given name for Henrietta which appears to be Abenia or similar and I wonder whether it was an attempt to name her after Mary's mother Abby/Abbey/Abigail

WOW, thanks Sue, could be......

My head is spinning, its all so much to think about, understand, try and prove and think about some more isn't it?

[kellymasters]

An Abenia Mary Callaghan (1876–1934) was the daughter of Patrick Callaghan and Margaret Sullivan, of East Melbourne. She is of the right age to be Mary Gallagher Plane Heffernan's cousin.....

T

All new information, thanks