Help please, Australia birth 1902 Edward George Kitchener PLANE

[kellymasters]

 

The priest at the baptism or his clerk has entered the wrong name for the father at the twins. The BDM index confirms they are children of Thomas & Mary.

Well, it strikes me as a strange co-incidence that the clergyman's "error" on the certificates of baptism is showing the two forenames of HEFFERNAN (George Edward) and the surname of Mary at that time PLANE.

A sort of merging of the two.

I cannot understand why the registration and the baptism have  different details.

Sue

I know....confusing   

[kellymasters]

There are times when it is sensible to obtain both the civil registration and the Church record .... and this is likely to be one of those times   

    

I wonder if the Priest made any margin notes on his local parish register....


Cheers,  JM

Newbie  so apologies  if this sounds silly  but do i just email and ask for those? 

[majm]

No,  I would always suggest that you wait until you have the civil registrations (official transcriptions will suffice), and then you ponder, and then you remember that civil registrations are Public Records, and Church Records are not.   So then, you wonder if it would be worthwhile contacting the local Church again, and providing them with a photocopy of the civil registration and asking them, at their convenience to check if there's any remarks on their parish register, perhaps outside of the normal headings, perhaps a margin note, that may explain the differences.  The Church is under no formal regulation to provide you with the information and  until you have the civil registration at hand, there's nothing but an index entry to provide to the Parish to support your enquiry.   

If I may comment, I suspect you will find that in that pre WWI era  that it was often far more significant to the general population to tell the truth to the Parish priest rather than to the public servant at the local court house....

PS, we were all newbies once.  Never apologise for asking a question when you don't know the answer.   If you don't ask the question, then you could be a newbie for ever ....   

Cheers,  JM

[sparrett]

 

Kellymasters, have you researched to locate and identify Henry GALLAGHER, the children's baptismal sponsor?

Sue

[kellymasters]

No,  I would always suggest that you wait until you have the civil registrations (official transcriptions will suffice), and then you ponder, and then you remember that civil registrations are Public Records, and Church Records are not.   So then, you wonder if it would be worthwhile contacting the local Church again, and providing them with a photocopy of the civil registration and asking them, at their convenience to check if there's any remarks on their parish register, perhaps outside of the normal headings, perhaps a margin note, that may explain the differences.  The Church is under no formal regulation to provide you with the information and  until you have the civil registration at hand, there's nothing but an index entry to provide to the Parish to support your enquiry.   

If I may comment, I suspect you will find that in that pre WWI era  that it was often far more significant to the general population to tell the truth to the Parish priest rather than to the public servant at the local court house....

PS, we were all newbies once.  Never apologise for asking a question when you don't know the answer.   If you don't ask the question, then you could be a newbie for ever ....   

Cheers,  JM

Great. Thank you. I will do as you ahve suggested

[kellymasters]

Kellymasters, have you researched to locate and identify Henry GALLAGHER, the children's baptismal sponsor?

Sue

Hi Sue

Not yet

[Toban]

I can't believe I didn't recognise the Heffernan/Plane father-forename swap in the baptismal register! That's what happens when you try and do genealogy sleep deprived!

So, I am going to agree with the thoughts that perhaps Mr. Heffernan is the father of the twins, and that Mary registered them officially with Thomas Plane as the father as he was her lawful husband at the time. The possibility of Edward G. K. also being Heffernan's son is strong, and it would give you a pretty solid explanation as to why only he and Dorothy/Doris accompanied their mother and Heffernan to N.Z. - they were his kids. The elder three (Fred, Charles & Hetta) all belonged to Plane, so they stayed in Aus. (Incidentally, did Edward and Doris keep the name Plane in NZ, or did they use Heffernan?)

Plane seems to be 'officially' shacked up with Harriet Horton by 1908, when their child is born and registered with them as parents, however Harriet's illegitimate child born in 1903 (Arthur Raymond Horton, #2834) later took the name Plane as his own, and on his death certificate Thomas Plane is listed as the father. This seems to me that Thomas and Harriet were together in 1903, so it stands to reason that Mary and Heffernan could be together by 1906.

Now, I am heading Albury way just after Christmas, I can see if I can get a look at the registers of St. Patrick's if you like, and tell you whether there's anything of interest there.

Toban

[kellymasters]

Toban....i am at work but will respond tonight 

[Toban]

Oh, I have a present for you! I had done some research around Elmore a little while ago and thought I'd have a look at a couple of the certificates I'd bought to see if there was anyone of interest to you on them, and who do I find but Arthur Raymond Horton, Harriet's son who was claimed by Thomas Plane!!!!! See attached.

Arthur was born in March 1903, so would've been conceived May/June 1902.
Edward was born in Sept 1902, so would've been conceived around New Year's 1902.

While it's obviously not impossible that Thomas & Mary split between New Year's and May of '02 the timing could indicate that indeed Edward belongs to Mr. Heffernan...... If you have male-line descendants of both Edward Plane and Francis Heffernan, a Y-DNA would confirm this.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!