Help please, Australia birth 1902 Edward George Kitchener PLANE

[kellymasters]

What interesting information JM and thanks to you and Toban, I have certainly learnt something today.

Kellymasters, the OP of this thread has not chatted with us for while despite having been online.

I wonder if our information continues to be of benefit in the inquiry.

Sue

good morning

sorry will comment when home tonight.  I have not been at my computer for a few days . Have only seen comments  on my phone. Loving and appreciating everyone's help.

[kellymasters]

Mary and Thomas Plane had a set of twins Dorothy and Eric PLANE in 1906, so Mary had to have come to NZ sometime after that. I know she brought Dorothy (known in NZ on her marriage cert as  Doris Jean PLANE) and my great great Grandfather Edward George Kitchener PLANE with her when she came.

I do not see a birth of twins in Victoria to the couple in 1906.
Where did you get the the information?

Births are registered in NSW 

Eric F PLANE b. 1906 ALBURY #31610
Dorothy J PLANE b. 1906 ALBURY #31611
Parents: Thomas H & Mary

Yes, at this stage i don't have birth certs for Eric or Dorothy. This might have to be on my list for after christmas

[kellymasters]

...
Births are registered in NSW 

Eric F PLANE b. 1906 ALBURY #31610
Dorothy J PLANE b. 1906 ALBURY #31611
Parents: Thomas H & Mary

Deduced from NSW BDM online ..... Eric and Dorothy Born 31 Dec 1906 

May I suggest if you are considering purchasing the birth certificates, that you order Official Transcriptions rather than the more expensive certificate.  You will get the same information. 
  May I also suggest you get #31611 (Dorothy) as it is numbered next after Eric's.  So,  hopefully it will be for the younger of twins.   NSW BDM birth registrations include details of the OLDER siblings .... so Dorothy's should include details for Eric.....  (two registrations for the price of one !)  It should also include the name and relationship of the person registering the birth, and details about Thomas H and Mary
   
Here's the NSW BDM live link to their Official Transcription Agents.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx#transcription

What to expect on a NSW birth registration:   
  Full given name/s, sex, date and place of birth (sometimes includes day of week, not just date and sometimes includes full street address/rural property name, not just town or village.)
  Mum's details full name and maiden name (and perhaps any other former names), age, occupation, place of birth.
  Dad's details - same depth of detail as for Mum .... so his full name, age, occupation, place of birth.
  Date and place of parents' marriage.
  Previous children of the relationship (name and age of living, number and gender of deceased).
  Name and relationship of informant,
  Name of Midwife/Doctor and any others present at the birth.

Cheers,  JM

Wow, awesome suggestions, so i will purchase Dorothy's birth transcription then, and fingers crossed we get the information for both of them.

Thank you for your awesome help

[kellymasters]

Was Thomas Henry PLANE's marriage to Mary GALLAGHER his second?

5846/1889 PLANE Thomas H
BILLMAN Maria E
MOAMA

A child in Victoria

PLANE  George William Henry
Father Thomas Henry
Mother Maria Emily BILLMAN
Birth Place ROCHESTER
Year 1890
Reg. Number16926

Death of Maria
PLANE  Maria
Father BILLMAN Wm
Mother Maria WHITE
Age 20
At Sandhurst
Year1890
Reg. Number 13779

Sue

Hi Sue,

Yes it was his second marriage. I dont know for sure, but maybe his first wife died in childbirth as it was the same year as the Thomas Henry PLANE's first son was born.

[kellymasters]

Here is the death of Eric PLANE in NSW

3835/1907  PLANE Eric F
Parents Thomas H & Mary
At ALBURY

Sue

PS
Bear in mind the first birth to Thomas H PANE and Harriet HORTON was in 1908 in Victoria

Hi Sue,

I have a copy of Eric's death, see attached

[kellymasters]

Deduced from NSW BDM online ..... Eric and Dorothy Born 31 Dec 1906 

Just wanted to point out that the twins' birth date is not stated on the NSW BDM site, nor can it be confirmed using confined search parameters on the date. While it is usually possible to find the exact date using a binary search method, but for some reason there's a handful of records that will be found regardless of the date range searched for (as long as it's within the right year). Unfortunately, the Plane twins fall into this category.

You can, however, use the binary search to deduce that Eric's date of death was 23 Apr 1907.

Cheers, 

Toban

Hi Toban,

Thank you so much for that. I had no idea how to find the exact date like that. I have just attached a copy of Eric's death online

[kellymasters]

Yes, regardless of what start and end dates you put in for them, a result will always be returned. You can confirm this if you select 'No' in the "Date of Event Range" box, thus allowing you to put in a specific date. Any date in 1906 put in that box will return a match for Eric Plane or Dorothy Plane. Furthermore, you can confirm the 23/04/1907 death date by putting that in the box when searching for deaths for Eric. Nothing is returned if another date is entered.

It's a weird anomaly, and I don't know the reason for it. Just that a small percentage of BDM entries are affected by it, usually in the early 1900s [of course, most of the early church records on there, baptisms, e.g., will also give a result for any date, presumably because the birth date is not necessarily given on a baptism]. 

Also, something to keep in mind for the future, if a child is born on 31 December, their birth is probably going to be registered in the new year, and so will have a different registration year to their birth year.

T

You guys are awesome, at this stage I don't have any birth certs or birth transcriptions for Dorothy or  Eric. As mentioned earlier I will get a transcription for Dorothy in the new year.

However I do have baptsims but they have confused me more 

[kellymasters]

I have made phone call. 

  It is important to remember that the basis for the current online index actually goes back to the volunteer work done in the 1930s. 
  It is also important to remember that entries prior to WWI are based on verbal information, particularly for births.   
  While the clerk at Albury Court House would be familiar with registering births, the parent will not be as knowledgeable. 
  The registrations were MEANT to be sent through to Sydney each quarter, so Oct, Nov, Dec were sent through in January.  (Jan/Feb/March in April etc) (Some were sent annually, others were not sent at all.... and were NOT actually formally found until the 1980s when all court house registers were recalled to Sydney)
  However, when the volunteers in the 1930s were preparing the indexes, some volunteers only wrote down the year of birth, and so the current index for these ones allows for ANY date in that YEAR ....   
  Back in the 1970s NSW BDM went EDP and the date of birth and year of registration were both keyed in.  NOT all the cards 'worked' .... some were jammed in the process, some fell, some tore, some had flaws in the actual card .....  Sometimes only the year (four digits) were read.
  When the 1930s index was brought across for the EDP processing, some entries were lost/destroyed/partly destroyed.
  It is a miracle that any info survived, as there has always been a funding issue. 
  If you find a date of birth coming up for the ECRs then that's because back in the 1930s those volunteers found it on the originals they were indexing.  But it is often more reliable at present to check the familysearch historic records index transcriptions to obtain the exact dates.

Sorry for diverting off the OPs topic with these explanations.

Cheers,  JM

Please don't be sorry for diverting slightly off topic. This is information is helpful to me and others. Thank you so much for making the phone call and sharing information with us all.

[kellymasters]

What interesting information JM and thanks to you and Toban, I have certainly learnt something today.

Kellymasters, the OP of this thread has not chatted with us for while despite having been online.

I wonder if our information continues to be of benefit in the inquiry.

Sue

Hi Sue,

I am learning heaps...thanks and its definitely helpful